The Fantastic Four is coming!

[philster]

Ok, it's official, after all the ads and interviews I have seen, the Fantastic Four movie has got me excited.

This is pretty incredible, considering I am not even a fan of the comic, but I am super interested in seeing this movie and all these special effects.

And the Human Torch looks INCREDIBLE!



...to think at one time the Human Torch would have just been able to make flames with his hands in an early script. Thank goodness they did away with that!

So anyway, this is the Countdown thread for the Fantastic Four movie. Thoughts?

[philster]

And when I heard Jessica Alba was going to be Invisible Woman, I didn't think she was right for the role - but she sure looks sweet in the role too.

[Venom65437]

I just can't get pumped up for this movie, you guys will probably determine if I go see it or not.

[Terrordar]

I'm probably going to go see it, I am not impressed by their Doctor Doom. I don't think the story has the villain to glue everything together.

However, it may, so I'm going to go see it.

[Gray Lensman]

I still have my reservations, but looks interesting enough to see anyway. If nothing else, they seem to have the basic feel of the FF themselves right. They're a family of celebrity adventurers, and come across as such. The special effects shots look great so far too.

So far, I would agree that Doom is the biggest red flag here. The changes I've seen haven't impressed me. But then, Doom is one of those rare villains that worked to start with. He doesn't need a Hollywood makeover. Still, if the movie develops the FF really well, then I may still enjoy this even if Doom is totally botched.

I'm going to see it regardless, though. I'm too much of an FF fan not to give this a look.

[Terrordar]

Steve, he got a major hollywood makeover.

Spoiler-

He's not longer the leader of Latvera, infact, never was. He owns some "doom inc" like thing, he's a CEO, and he gets effected by the Power Cosmic too. I know that may spoil something, but that is his hollywood makeover. He also loves Sue Storm, and basically hates Reed OVER her.

[Gray Lensman]

Pretty much my problems in a nutshell, yeah. That, and the whole Ultimate Doom deal, with the organic steel body. Sounds really weak.

Wouldn't surprise me if some of these changes were made to avoid comparisons with Darth Vader... in spite of the fact that Doom preceded him by almost 20 years. Sigh.

[Terrordar]

I doubt it Steve.

They did this because they wanted to give him a Hollywood makeover. Its like what they did to Doc Ock's personality, and to some extent powers and history.

They do it because they want to leave their mark on the character.

[Gray Lensman]

Either way, it's pointless. None of this does anything to improve the character in any way. If anything, much of this sounds damaging.

Doom is a villain with complex motivations. Much of this depends on his background. From what you're telling me, it really sounds like they gutted all that.

But then, much of what the film is doing with Doom is drawn from Ultimate FF, which likewise got the wrong idea...

[Terrordar]

Yea Steve, his motives seem non-existant. He really is a boring villain. I'm probably going to see the movie, but the villain is not the star atttaction, and thats putting it mildly.

[philster]

I think it's just an easier way to tie Doom in to the Fantastic Four to fit it all in a 1 1/2 hour story (or however long the movie will be).

I'm not even sure why Dr. Doom hated the Fantastic Four so much in the first place (in the comics). Care to fill me in, Steve?

[Terrordar]

Doctor Doom wanted to conquer the world last time I checked! ;D

The funniest thing Stan Lee said about that was easily how he described it.

"Wanting to take over the world is not a crime, and even if it was, he had diplomatic immunity. Doctor Doom could walk up to a police officer on the street and say "I want to take over the world", its not a crime, you can't charge him with that, so what are you supposed to do?"

The movie character seems to lack that, a lot of his motivation centers around Sue Storm and jealousy...

[philster]

Well, I have to admit that does sound more like a loser's motivation, and rather cliche.

I wonder if movie Dr. Doom will go for higher aspirations in a sequel... change his goals, and this is just the beginning.

But if Dr. Doom is not going to be a recurring character, eh, they have plenty of other enemies I'm sure. I always think major villains in superhero origin movies get kind of a bum deal unless they steal the show (ie. Joker of the 1989 Batman movie) or gets a chance to come back (Magneto of the X-Men franchise).

The first movie usually centers on the hero(es), and that's obviously going to be true in this case too.

[philster]

Ergh, but aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here? We haven't even seen the movie.

[TheScreamMan]

last i heard he wanted power, and was a control freak. i was told its less that he wants sue, its that she refuses to give in to him, which means he has no control over her. to top it off Reed gets her pretty easily, which makes him hate richards all the more.

[Gray Lensman]

philster said:

I'm not even sure why Dr. Doom hated the Fantastic Four so much in the first place (in the comics). Care to fill me in, Steve?

It's a long story, but I'll do my best.

Reed and Doom started off as college rivals. Even back then, they weren't exactly great friends. They were always in competition when it came to science.

They came to blows later, when Doom started to explore forbidden research. Doom had secretly built a device to contact the afterlife. (He was trying to reach the soul of his dead mother.) The problem was that Doom's calculations were off. Reed tried to warn Doom, but Doom in his arrogance refused to listen.

Doom tried to use the machine anyway, and the machine exploded. The explosion also scarred Doom's face. Doom has blamed Reed ever since.

But really, when you pare him down to his core, I think Doom is trying to prove his intellectual superiority over everyone else. He wants to rule the world because he thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and so thinks he's better qualified. He mainly hates Reed specifically because Reed is the one person who is capable of outsmarting him at every turn. It's the combination of brilliance, arrogance, tragedy, and twisted honor that makes him interesting, at least to me.

[Gray Lensman]

As for the movie itself, I'm not going to condemn it yet. It could still be fun to watch anyway. I loved the "Unthinkable" arc of Waid's FF, and I pretty much hated the portrayal of Doom in that. So, in theory, it's entirely possible I may still like this anyway. It depends on whether the spirit of the FF is there, which might well happen. I feel good on that side of it.

Unfortunately, the FF don't have a lot of great villains. Pretty much all of the good FF villains go back to Lee and Kirby at least. Once you get past Doom, Namor, and Galactus, there really is not much there. That having been said, I do think there are quite a few FF villains that have real potential, with the right take. They'd just need a good writer who's good at revamping classic villains.

[philster]

It's a long story, but I'll do my best.

Reed and Doom started off as college rivals. Even back then, they weren't exactly great friends. They were always in competition when it came to science.

They came to blows later, when Doom started to explore forbidden research. Doom had secretly built a device to contact the afterlife. (He was trying to reach the soul of his dead mother.) The problem was that Doom's calculations were off. Reed tried to warn Doom, but Doom in his arrogance refused to listen.

Doom tried to use the machine anyway, and the machine exploded. The explosion also scarred Doom's face. Doom has blamed Reed ever since.

Instead of blaming himself eh? Did he just want to blame Reed instead of admitting that Reed was right?

But really, when you pare him down to his core, I think Doom is trying to prove his intellectual superiority over everyone else. He wants to rule the world because he thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and so thinks he's better qualified. He mainly hates Reed specifically because Reed is the one person who is capable of outsmarting him at every turn. It's the combination of brilliance, arrogance, tragedy, and twisted honor that makes him interesting, at least to me.

Thanks for explaining. It does sound like Doom was very arrogant and very imperfect. If that early experiment blew up in his own face, though, I wonder why he is still even alive as it's obvious he's done countless other experiments since then.

[Gray Lensman]

philster said:

Instead of blaming himself eh? Did he just want to blame Reed instead of admitting that Reed was right?

Yep. That's it exactly.

Doom's arrogance is such that he's not the sort to admit he's wrong. It's probably his most fatal flaw.

Thanks for explaining. It does sound like Doom was very arrogant and very imperfect. If that early experiment blew up in his own face, though, I wonder why he is still even alive as it's obvious he's done countless other experiments since then.

Well, it was a very small miscalculation.

Doom actually doesn't make that many real mistakes, at least when written properly. It's just that the few mistakes he does make turn out to be fatal. Doom just thinks he's so smart that he can't make any mistakes, so naturally it's all their fault.

He's the classic tragic villain, in a lot of ways. Although he does bring a fair amount of his own ruin on himself, it's still fun to watch.

[Shan]

This is another one that I am going to wait to see what you guys think of it before I decide whether to see it or not.

The preview I saw looked pretty good, but previews can be very misleading.

I a wait you reviews guys. ;D

Shan