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Post by Flix on Oct 11, 2009 20:30:28 GMT
I don't like that this was awarded to him, because it will mostly only serve to stir up more animosity towards him for 1) not deserving it in the first place, and 2) apart from curing all diseases and ending all war, any future endeavors will always be seen as "failing" to live up to the prize
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Oct 12, 2009 7:29:57 GMT
Reasons for giving Obama the nobel peace prize. - He's black.
This isn't a racist comment, rather a comment on the way that the rest of the world will now see the american political animal.
- He's main campagine points were about peace, and health care for the masses
- He's not President Bush.
Several sources are suggesting that the very fact that obama was elected has lowered tensions in various parts of the world. |
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Post by Glance A'Lot on Oct 12, 2009 8:43:14 GMT
Several sources are suggesting that the very fact that obama was elected has lowered tensions in various parts of the world.
Which would mean that the prize would be to those electing him, making him their representative?
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 12, 2009 8:54:23 GMT
I think electing a Black President has caused a lot of other nations to do a double-take and re-assess their opinion of America and Americans. Which says a lot about THEIR anti-American racism, of course...
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Post by Flix on Oct 12, 2009 9:23:45 GMT
Several sources are suggesting that the very fact that obama was elected has lowered tensions in various parts of the world.Which would mean that the prize would be to those electing him, making him their representative? I will be eagerly awaiting my money in the mail.  |
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Post by Glance A'Lot on Oct 12, 2009 10:27:18 GMT
You mean all $ 0.0144 of it?  (That'd be $ 1 Mio divided by 69.5 Mio voters... ;D ) |
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Post by twoheadedragon on Oct 12, 2009 12:21:45 GMT
One point there, Dragon. While there are undoubtedly a few bad apples in any army, the occupation forces in Iraq are trying their best to do a very hard job in intolerable conditions and under extreme pressure. Please remember to put the blame squarely where it belongs: on the scumbag politicians that sent them there and force them to remain there. Yes, of course. When I say "The Army," or "US Troops" I mean the politicians who are leading them. Certainly not those poor boys out there, trying to survive in harsh conditions, so far away from home and family... It's understandable that they go crazy, and have all kinds of traumas there and when they get back... IF they get back... *sigh* so much for the "war on terror."  @ Flix: Well, IIRC the money is "all being donated to charity..." Hopefully it can go to FCI!  |
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Post by kilgoretrout on Oct 12, 2009 22:52:45 GMT
WAr is TERROR , terror is a state of mind perpetuated by constant fear and violence , how can there be a war on fear ...or an idea /state of mind? I feel sad for those who are brainwashed into "patriotic" feelings and go off to war , when all that they defend is corporate greed commerce and corruption...
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Post by ss on Oct 13, 2009 1:53:42 GMT
WAr is TERROR , terror is a state of mind perpetuated by constant fear and violence , how can there be a war on fear ...or an idea /state of mind? I feel sad for those who are brainwashed into "patriotic" feelings and go off to war , when all that they defend is corporate greed commerce and corruption... Give it a rest KT, or just kiss my grits....I spent 20 years as one of those which you mistakenly think are "brainwashed" into "patriotic" feelings.... You simply just don't have a clue...that is sad.... I have a feeling that you consider that only YOUR type are really partiots...(whatever that may be) |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 13, 2009 3:50:19 GMT
Every nation needs an army if it is to remain a nation. That's so obvious it should be a complete given. The only reason the rest of us get to NOT fight is because of those who will do so on our behalf.
The blame for a bad war sits wholly and solely where it belongs: with the politicians. Every time.
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Post by Glance A'Lot on Oct 13, 2009 8:21:19 GMT
Every nation needs an army if it is to remain a nation. That's so obvious it should be a complete given. The only reason the rest of us get to NOT fight is because of those who will do so on our behalf. The blame for a bad war sits wholly and solely where it belongs: with the politicians. Every time. Historically that may be true - nowadays the existence of a sovereign nation without army, especially standing army, is conceivable in some areas. Granted, they'll be embedded in some alliance guaranteeing their existence, but still the 'we'll take our defenseless, weaker neigbour'- method wouldn't work anymore as it did. 'The politicians' - while principally agreeing - are 'the sovereign' (after all there are some not parliamentary controlled executive powers around). In democracies the sovereign supposedly is the people... Sometimes I wonder why we continuously elect people we as continuously do not trust, find incompetent - and why someone honestly saying and doing what should reasonably be done has no chance of being elected. |
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Oct 13, 2009 8:31:33 GMT
'tis simple - To quote terry goodkind - People are stupid, Almost anyone will believe almost anything given sufficient motivation.
The people that say what reasonably needs to be done in an honest fashion is telling people things they don't want to know, and things that will impact them in a negitive fashion. While the other politicians are handing out rose tinted glasses left right and centre.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 13, 2009 8:48:18 GMT
A sovereign nation is not very sovereign if it cowers behind the skirts of another nation in order to guarantee its own freedom, is it Glance? It may be technically possible, yes, but I don't think there's actually a single nation out there that doesn't keep at least a token force for defence.
***
Why do we constantly elect the corrupt, the stupid and the ignorant? Because of tribalism. Arguably the greatest flaw of Democracy as a system is the Auto-Voter. The person who does not think why they should vote for a candidate or a party, but who will mindlessly continue to vote the same way every time because of a sense of loyalty to 'their' party, or a mistaken belief that the party is somehow on their side, despite all evidence to the contrary.
A study recently showed that in even the biggest swings from one party to another in the UK, at least 70% of seats never changed hands. That says it all, really.
Too many people do not think politics, they BELIEVE politics. So they will vote for 'their' party or not at all.
Intelligent people who actually look at the available choices and vote according to what they honestly think of the issues are very thin on the ground.
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Post by kilgoretrout on Oct 13, 2009 10:05:03 GMT
WAr is TERROR , terror is a state of mind perpetuated by constant fear and violence , how can there be a war on fear ...or an idea /state of mind? I feel sad for those who are brainwashed into "patriotic" feelings and go off to war , when all that they defend is corporate greed commerce and corruption... Give it a rest KT, or just kiss my grits....I spent 20 years as one of those which you mistakenly think are "brainwashed" into "patriotic" feelings.... You simply just don't have a clue...that is sad.... I have a feeling that you consider that only YOUR type are really partiots...(whatever that may be) Perhaps I think your feelings are misplaced.... |
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Post by Glance A'Lot on Oct 13, 2009 14:49:02 GMT
To me - granted, a foreigner - this is 'fruit salad' (An apples and oranges comparison).
To refer to patriots in the War of Independence is kind of a hindsight history view. What were patriots in this sense then were rebels and it infers that the not so small percentage of the then called loyalists were not patriotic.
However those had as much love for their homeland as the others, I would believe - and their descendants also are Americans now. To state that because they were obedient to what they believed to be their rightful sovereign they were not patriotic to me is clearly a 'victor's view'.
Patriotism is not nationalism - it is love and respect of one's culture, home and to a not to be neglected part also people.
I'm not saying that opposing an oppressive Government cannot not be patriotic, but to say that doing so always is or is a basis for it, would in my opinion be a misuse of the term in its original and true sense.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 13, 2009 15:02:00 GMT
In any war between citizens of the same nation (As with the American War Of Independence - don't forget, both sides were British in origin), one man's 'Patriot' is another man's 'Traitor' and the same applies to both sides. In such cases, we are not talking about indigenous, conquered, peoples fighting for their freedom, after all.
Comparing a civil war to a war against another nation is, as Glance has said, like comparing apples & oranges.
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Post by kilgoretrout on Oct 13, 2009 18:35:49 GMT
I agree with Glance and Ek , what I'm talking about is patriotism that is sold to the American people as truth , when in my opinion we are taught to feel patriotic only to line the pockets of the war profiteer corporations.
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Post by Flix on Oct 13, 2009 18:40:57 GMT
Yes. There is a breed of 'patriotism' in America that amounts to "agree with the way things are, agree with the decisions your government makes, or get out." People say all the time, "love it or leave it." Of course this only lasts until the government does something they don't like, then it's "change it back, it's not America anymore!"
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 13, 2009 18:50:15 GMT
Ah. 'My country right or wrong'. I don't consider that patriotism, but rather fanaticism. And you guys know my opinion of fanatics of ANY stripe...
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Post by kilgoretrout on Oct 14, 2009 3:03:10 GMT
It is my observation that since many Americans neither read nor give much thought to cultural or political examination , they tend to be plied with fanatical rhetoric regarding patriotism , and that will be their only understanding of the word. A word that will fill many with zeal to kill supposed enemies , without any of the context of history or humanity.
The main thing to me is , these kids go off to war with a lie in their hearts , a lie that makes old men richer and young men dead.
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