Post by ss on Oct 29, 2009 0:00:00 GMT
ss , "sin" only comes from two things , ignorance and selfishness.
if I am ignorant of the affect of my actions , or I am well aware of the negative consequences of my actions and then proceed along those lines anyway. Either way whatever the case, it is a choice I make , so I do take responsibility for my actions.
I think I take responsibility even more so than the orthodox Christian , considering I have no boogey man ala Satan to blame my humanity on .
I think you and I may value the same things to some degree, like the human lessons that Christ was trying to impart. I wonder though , why since I don't believe that an identity or an afterlife are necessary should I pine for salvation? I mean why would I have to accept salvation and original sin , if I understand sin to be ignorance and the only salvation from it is to widen the perspective and broaden the empathy in order to be less likely to abuse others and more likely to be less selfish?
Why should I accept those things which seem trivial and selfish to me , like eternity and heaven , when I can walk the philosophy , live the perfection through a lifetime without the fear ? Because to me , I can apply those very attributes of Christ , LOVE , COMPASSION , KINDNESS , NON JUdGMENT , etc without having to resort to shame and fear to do so...
I choose to do this without eternal reward or fear of eternal damnation ....why not?
And perfection ....you think it can't be lived? I submit that perfection is a function of constant evolution by the design of God toward the ultimate goal of LOVE , COMPASSION , etc...
Am I not to achieve my aspirations to be loving ? not 100%?
It's not as difficult as you might think..
Man widening his perspective, seeing and understanding the views of others and working to alleviate the ills in the hearts of those around him , is the movement to Christ. It is not about sitting on your hands and waiting for a saviour to come back , he already came once and now it is up to man to got to him, by following the simple principles put forth.
When you rely only on one person (Jesus) for salvation then you are missing the metaphor of Christ. The truths did indeed come in the form of metaphor, parable and allegory. "We are sinners". You must understand that sin arrives from a limited or ignorant perspective. We are saved from sin by widening our ability to see.
We are to see the ultimate cause and effect of our actions regarding sin and ill conduct. The coming of Christ is an expanding of vision. When we are able to shift our perspective/widen our view regarding the pain we cause when we choose to act maliciously, we are able to truly sense joy and pain , expand love through mutual respect forgiveness and understanding.
He has already come, that was his part, we are to now apply his message (Love) and come into his consciousness. In this way we are to become worthy.
The illusion that has been enforced is literalism rather than truth. Jesus spoke in parable. The semantics and dogma of literalism is a road block, an earthly device to divide and conquer.
I am ultimately responsible, I look within for absolution. I am forgiven by being forgiving, healed by displaying kindness to others , and eternal by the love that I give to those who live on when I am gone.
Well again KT, we are at odds..
I have no problem with your desire or belief that one should take responsibility for their own actions...I believe the same thing.?? But one has no bearing on the other..
You can embrace your own religious philosophies all you want, but when you try to roll it over into some morphed type of "christianity" type belief, then you lose credibility...
The fact that Christ spoke in parables is true, but that is not the end of it, because parables were for a point....
"And the disciples came and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given" Matt 13:10,11
HE also spoke plain, unvarnished, absolute truth.
You remind me of those Pharasees that Jesus had unending problems with as they were determined to reject everything he said?
Your concept of sin is YOURS, it has nothing at all to to with the definition of SIN in the scriptures...
You say you "choose" to define it your way,
you "choose" to do this without eternal reward or fear of eternal damnation ....why not?
----------------
"And perfection ....you think it can't be lived? I submit that perfection is a function of constant evolution by the design of God toward the ultimate goal of LOVE , COMPASSION , etc...
Am I not to achieve my aspirations to be loving ? not 100%?
It's not as difficult as you might think..
Man widening his perspective, seeing and understanding the views of others and working to alleviate the ills in the hearts of those around him , is the movement to Christ. It is not about sitting on your hands and waiting for a saviour to come back , he already came once and now it is up to man to got to him, by following the simple principles put forth."
--------------------
All well and good desires...and no, you can NOT achieve perfection...to do so would negate the plain teaching of Scripture that you are not a "fallen" human being...
---------------
"
When you rely only on one person (Jesus) for salvation then you are missing the metaphor of Christ. The truths did indeed come in the form of metaphor, parable and allegory. "We are sinners". You must understand that sin arrives from a limited or ignorant perspective. We are saved from sin by widening our ability to see."
------------------
Christ was not a metaphor...and we are sinners did not mean what your concept and definition just stated... and more and most important, the Scriptures PLAINLY teach that Jesus IS THE ONLY WAY FOR SALVATION...you may well "choose" to disbelieve it, but you can't DENY that it is what the Scriptures plainly teach..
You should actually READ the scriptures and stop trying to "almalgamate" them into your desires...they are what they are and they reject your manipulation of them....actually, you should STOP trying to roll them into your philosophies and have the "cahones" to say that you actually don't read the bible and have no actual compehension of what Christianity teaches at all..
We also FYI do not blame anything about our humanity on Satan, I fail to see where or why you state such a thing..
Yes Christ did come once....the Scripture says so (appareltly you agree or you would not have said so), but the same bible states HE WILL COME AGAIN, and you "choose" (apparently) to just forget that writing as you do multiple others...
also, there are rules for understanding the Scriptures...Hermanutics....and the rule is that if the Scriptures can be taken "literally", then do so!!! if it is apparent poetic language, (as are a lot of the Psalms) then take it as such, if it is allegorical..like lots of Revelations showing beasts with 10 heads and 10 horns, then take it as such...but when it is plain UNARGUABLE simple narrative. then it is not to be manipulated so you can deny the core teachings of Christianity and justify you stand outside of it while trying to hold on to just the part you want...that is hypocracy in my opinion..
I have come to the conclusion that you actually do not know ANYTHING at all about Christianity...
Could it be....? that you are fulfilling the very scripture that you try and twist....??
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost; In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
I don't know...hope not...