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Post by Ubereil on Jan 8, 2008 17:22:26 GMT
* The British Empire, which spread it to the far corners of the globe. That, and the USA's position in world politics today. Three hundred years ago French was the language you spoke with foreigners, but English took over that position first thanks to the Brittish Empire, then thanks to the USA. Your other two points is just a result of this (music in english is more popular because more pepole understand it, and the internet is mostly in English for the same reason). Übereil
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Post by Alrik on Jan 8, 2008 17:26:56 GMT
Yes, but technical terms in music are still often in Italian.
And German still has a prominent place in Geology, Geography and Biology. And for Archaeology you NEED to be able to understand Italian, French, German ... - apart from English.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 8, 2008 17:37:34 GMT
I disagree that the US' political position matters. What definitely DOES matter is their cultural position - which is hugely about music and films. Bollywood may have the world's largest film industry, but the US film industry crosses far more cultural and linguistic boundaries. Similarly, while every country has plenty of groups and singers by far most of the huge international groups and singers are either British or American, and have been since the 60s. The internet is mostly in English because the English speaking nations have more people online collectively, I believe, than any other single linguistic group. It probably didn't hurt that the man who invented the first web browser was English, either English was adopted as the international language of science because it offers more shades of definition. Air traffic control, I'm not sure. I think that may have been the same reason.
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Post by Ubereil on Jan 8, 2008 17:58:04 GMT
From the Wiki article on English: Modern English is sometimes described as the global lingua franca. English is a dominant international language in communications, science, business, aviation, entertainment, radio and diplomacy. The influence of the British Empire is the primary reason for the initial spread of the language far beyond the British Isles. Since World War II, the growing economic and cultural influence of the United States has significantly accelerated the adoption of English. Pretty much what I said. My father started reading English in 1956, when he was 11 years old. That was the first language he read apart from Swedish. According to him American culture started appearing in the late 50's (Rock'n'Roll and American cars). English was the second language in the world long before American culture became popular. Übereil
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 8, 2008 18:40:23 GMT
Would help if you said what you are quoting, Ube...
Having said that, it's closer to what I said than what you said. We both overlooked the economic factor, we both covered the Empire. It was only post-Imperial where we had any real divergence of opinion.
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Post by Alrik on Jan 8, 2008 19:03:32 GMT
The internet is mostly in English because the English speaking nations have more people online collectively, Yeah, asnd then someone came and actually said: "I invented the Internet !" I fear that too few people know what CERN had to do with it ...
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 8, 2008 19:34:06 GMT
You mean Al Gore? There can't be anyone who actually believes him, surely? Can there? ;D
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Post by Ubereil on Jan 8, 2008 19:35:26 GMT
Would help if you said what you are quoting, Ube... Having said that, it's closer to what I said than what you said. We both overlooked the economic factor, we both covered the Empire. It was only post-Imperial where we had any real divergence of opinion. It was supposed to say "quote by Wikipedia". It's from the Wiki article on the English language. The funny thing is that I thought it was closer to what I said because it pretty much confirmed that English is so popular because of GB's and the US dominant position in the world. But then again, I missed the entire second page, so you might have put in some other points that I missed. Übereil
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Post by Alrik on Jan 8, 2008 20:21:47 GMT
Dominastion is also a point of view. There are quite some countries being "dominated" by Arabic language(s). You mean Al Gore? There can't be anyone who actually believes him, surely? Can there? ;D I still can't make it up why he actually said that. He must've been on drugs or so, honestly. Such stupidness must be forbidden by law.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 8, 2008 23:54:25 GMT
I completely agree, Alrik! It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard anyone say, honestly. It's so blatantly untrue it just makes him look like a fool.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 9, 2008 0:03:32 GMT
Would help if you said what you are quoting, Ube... Having said that, it's closer to what I said than what you said. We both overlooked the economic factor, we both covered the Empire. It was only post-Imperial where we had any real divergence of opinion. It was supposed to say "quote by Wikipedia". It's from the Wiki article on the English language. The funny thing is that I thought it was closer to what I said because it pretty much confirmed that English is so popular because of GB's and the US dominant position in the world. But then again, I missed the entire second page, so you might have put in some other points that I missed. Übereil The British Empire wasn't just politically dominant - it covered roughly a third of the land surface of the entire world. And no - that's not a joke. When they say 'the sun never set on the British Empire' it was a literal truth - wherever the sun shone, it was shining on some part of the Empire. Canada, Australia, America and plenty of other places were settled largely by us, and adopted our language, but a lot of other places learned it because they were conquered by us (Or conquered less completely if you prefer). Our linguistic dominance at that time owes nothing to politics or even economics (Though the main reason for a lot of the conquering WAS trade related - at least ostensibly) and everything to the fact that a massive number of children across the globe were growing up under British rule. America, by contrast, has no foreign colonies as such. The only people growing up under US rule are Americans.
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Post by Galadriel on Jan 9, 2008 0:50:30 GMT
If I recall correctly, the Celts and the Welsh tribes were sworn enemies of the English right? British England and Scotland and Wales didn't get along very well. I'm not sure about this though, but i read some books about that and of course saw Braveheart too
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 9, 2008 1:05:37 GMT
Braveheart was... Well, 'Hollywood History' would be the polite version ;D
It's true that the Scots and Welsh were hostile to England, though. Fortunately that's long over, for the most part. The Welsh don't mind us now, while the Scots don't exactly love us but they aren't raiding over the border anymore, either...
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Post by Galadriel on Jan 9, 2008 1:08:34 GMT
Braveheart was... Well, 'Hollywood History' would be the polite version ;D It's true that the Scots and Welsh were hostile to England, though. Fortunately that's long over, for the most part. The Welsh don't mind us now, while the Scots don't exactly love us but they aren't raiding over the border anymore, either... I agree for Braveheart lol, but I don't agree for the hostile part though, it was the other way around, the English wanted to submit the Scots and the Welsh
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 9, 2008 1:17:32 GMT
That's because they kept raiding over the borders, Gal. Call us weird, but having our people killed & livestock stolen wasn't something we were happy about...
Poor countries with richer neighbours did a lot of that in those days. And the richer neighbour tended to try to stop it by invading.
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Post by cleglaw on Jan 9, 2008 5:14:49 GMT
Brits number their floors differently. This actually got me confused for awhile in a large Indian store until I figured out the problem. American 1st floor=British ground floor American 2nd floor=British 1st floor
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Post by The Sonar Chicken on Jan 9, 2008 5:48:23 GMT
Brits number their floors differently. This actually got me confused for awhile in a large Indian store until I figured out the problem. American 1st floor=British ground floor American 2nd floor=British 1st floor Yep... it gets kinda confusing. LOL...
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 9, 2008 9:44:03 GMT
It gets very confusing! American floor counting is odd! ;D
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Post by Alrik on Jan 9, 2008 14:58:14 GMT
Brits number their floors differently. This actually got me confused for awhile in a large Indian store until I figured out the problem. American 1st floor=British ground floor American 2nd floor=British 1st floor We do it similar like the Brits. About American colonies ... Well, I wouldn't call them "colonies" ... some are just "states" ... Like Hawaii, for example ...
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Post by cleglaw on Jan 9, 2008 15:15:50 GMT
Another example of a difference in English which hindered me from getting what I wanted:
In the northeast USA where I am originally from, we use the word "soda" to describe any carbonated beverage--coke, pepsi, grape soda, etc. One thirsty day in India I went up to a shopkeeper and asked him if he had any soda. He said no. I was turned away from a few shops this way. The problem was that in India (and therefore possibly in the UK) soda means plain seltzer water without any added flavorings. To get what I wanted, I should have asked for "cold drinks". To add to the linguistic confusion, in other parts of the USA soda means seltzer water only, and the word used is either "pop" or "Coke". Yes, Coke is a brand name, but if you order Coke then they ask you what kind of Coke you want.
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