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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 25, 2005 14:48:46 GMT
Just read Manhattan Guardian #3 and Shining Knight #3. Both very good, but I think Guardian was better. Grant really built in a great story within the story, showing how heroism can carry a personal cost. Great issue Shining Knight I think is building - though to what I am not yet sure. Proabably some really spectacular fights
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Post by thebarkingshark on Aug 11, 2005 19:32:37 GMT
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 22, 2005 14:27:44 GMT
Well, I liked Klarion, but Zatanna was better this time! Misty is really WHAT? Ye gods, I never saw THAT coming! I definitely hope she gets to stick around, though. She's a VERY cool character.
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Post by hector on Aug 24, 2005 6:35:48 GMT
Zatanna started slow for me. The half-veiled criticism towards Moore hardly worked, but her third issue was my favorite of the thirds.
Talking about Zatanna #3, tell me if Ray Tate isn't just adorable:
Seven Soldiers of Victory: Zatanna #3
Posted: Saturday, August 13 By: Ray Tate Print This Item
Writer: Grant Morrison Artist: Ryan Sook(p), Mick Gray(i), Nathan Eyring(c) Publisher: DC
Bad. Very bad. I expect a heckuva lot more from Grant Morrison, and for this issue of Zatanna, he just doesn't deliver.
Last issue we left off with the intriguing cliffhanger of the Phantom Stranger returning to his lady love Cassandra Craft. The intention: groceries and breakfast. This issue glosses over what had to be more interesting than what can be found in these pages. You can just imagine the wit and conversation Morrison may have dialogued for the breakfast scene, and you'll just have to use your imagination because it's not here.
We're stuck this issue with Zatanna and Misty encountering the Tempter, a loser villain from an issue of World's Finest, which featured Superman and Hawkman--the Silver Age incarnation, who thanks to the original Crisis never existed. The battle between Zee and Misty against the Tempter is quick and uninteresting.
Whereas previous issues of Seven Soldiers of Victory successfully banked on subtlety, this issue of Zatanna uses sledge-hammer type writing that I'm used to seeing from the usual band of hacks in DC's stable. Zatanna keeps referring to Misty as "babe." I mean, we're one step away from her being referred to as "girlfriend."
Zatanna all of a sudden becomes exposition lass, and some of that exposition refers to--brace yourselves--Infinite Intestinal Blockage:
"You don't know me. I've used my magic powers to change people's lives and memories."
No! No, she didn't. That was a lousy writer who did that.
"I was a really bad super-hero, Misty. I did a lot of stuff superheroes shouldn't do and what's worse is. I got caught."
No. Zatanna good. DC bad.
Once again, I call foul. The Morrison continuity cannot in any way synch up to the tatterdemalion that DC calls continuity. The Morrison continuity from JLA diametrically opposes the very concepts of ugliness to be found in Crapdown to Insidious Ineptitude.
Zatanna and Misty enter the story seen in Shining Knight. They step over bodies, bump into Nebula where a secret about Misty unravels and free the winged steed Victory, but so what?
This is the dullest work from Morrison I’ve ever seen. The dialogue plods. There are no clever allusions to be found in story. The characterization rings false. Worst of all for people who considered Seven Soldiers of Victory to be the life preserver in the sea of books contaminated by Countdown to Dearth of Creativity, Morrison all of a sudden becomes a company man.
Oh, and as much as I like breasts, Zatanna’s outfit by Ryan Sook is distracting and ridiculous. Maybe if there were a story providing lift and support I wouldn't have noticed so much. This is almost like having Joss Whedon recycle old Star Trek plots for--What's that? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Yes. It's the only guy who praises Byrne's current output, liked the terribly outdated Batman: Dark Detective and once had a 180 degrees change of mind about Fallen Angel because of, get this, socks. He's pure dynamite.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 24, 2005 6:51:41 GMT
Wow! I have to say it's rare that I disagree with every single word of a review, but I'll certainly make an exception in THIS case. I LOVED Z3. I thought it was easily the best so far, and the Misty revelation was not only jaw dropping, but tied in fantastically to the overall themes Morrison is developing throughout 7S. I also love the whole mentor/apprentice thing Zee & Misty have going.
Just goes to show...
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Post by hector on Aug 24, 2005 6:59:01 GMT
Wow! I have to say it's rare that I disagree with every single word of a review, but I'll certainly make an exception in THIS case. No, no. It's OK. It's Ray Tate. Here's what he had to say about Fallen Angel #5And socks. Never, ever depict a super-hero in socks. I am not anti-sock. I wear socks. Socks are a great invention. They keep the tootsies warm, but I'm comfortable not knowing whether Batman or the eighth Doctor wear socks beneath their boots. Socks just look silly. Think about it. Did the Shadow wear socks? Imagine if you will: broad-brimmed hat, pulled down over ice-blue eyes, hawk-nose, Sterenko red scarf fluttering in the night winds, flaming girasol, ink-black clothing, twin automatics and dirty gray socks! Ruins the image, doesn't it? I don't care how hollow and chilling that laughter may be; once a thug sees those socks, he's the one that will be laughing. We see our "mysterious" Fallen Angel with her boobs crushed against the lip of a tub trying to wash out bloodstains, and she's also wearing little gray socks! Mystique, this is Window. Window, this is mystique.I would be worried if you did agreed.
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Post by hector on Aug 24, 2005 7:02:02 GMT
And yeah, Z #3 was fantastic. The more the series interact, and the grander tapestry is being revealed, the better the series get.
As stand-alone reads are good, as whole I'm betting it will be a classic.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 24, 2005 7:10:27 GMT
I completely agree with you, Hec. I thought 7S would be pretty good, but I liked the idea more than I expected to like the execution, if you see what I mean. Having seen it so far,I LOVE the execution
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Post by hector on Aug 24, 2005 7:14:48 GMT
I had a certain degree of confidence that Morrison will pull it off. My favorite work of him is about DC characters.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 24, 2005 7:17:33 GMT
Zenith is still my favourite Morrison work, but 7S is gonna come very close by the time it's done if he keeps this level of quality up...
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Post by hector on Aug 25, 2005 1:08:27 GMT
JLA for me, natch. Animal Man on second place.
NXM is on 27th place.
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Post by The Spider on Aug 25, 2005 1:37:42 GMT
Flex Mentallo, Invisibles, JLA, and Zenith are tied at the top for me. Then We3 and the Seven Soldiers comics. I also liked Vimanarama and am trying to complete my Doom Patrol run to read it all the way.
Animal Man was good but sometimes the art didn't work for me. New X-Men... would only have worked if the X-Men had been about as popular as the Doom Patrol, since with the X-Men, you've got an high-profile, entangled, complex history of characters and story. Personally, Morrison's Marvel work doesn't seem as interesting to me as his DC work (except maybe MARVEL BOY and FANTASTIC FOUR 1234, but I'm still not sure yet)
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Post by The Spider on Aug 27, 2005 4:20:49 GMT
As for favorite 7 SOLDIERS comics, I haven't decided how I'd rank them, but I'm liking them all so far and it's fun to see the connections between the minis.
I'm awaiting the upcoming MISTER MIRACLE comic CAUTIOUSLY, if only because I liked Kirby's NEW GODS (and other Fourth World) comics and Walt Simonson's ORION series from a few years ago & it could be jarring to me like NEW X-MEN was for longtime fans. But since I'm liking how the other series are so far, I'm still going to give it a look.
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brett
Apprentice
"We'll get you some cool new clothes, Tom"
Posts: 162
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Post by brett on Aug 27, 2005 13:10:09 GMT
It's interesting you mention the jarring to long time fans spider. Marvel hasn't really played loose and fast with continuity and such, while DC has. New X-Men was virtually a revamp of the book, more in line with say a Batman Year One, rather than a direct, continual, exactly linear progression of the titles, which Marvel usually did. As in it took what worked, left out what didn't, then marched straight on. Doesn't seem to be something that goes over well with Marvel books (although the Ultimate books sort of dilute that arguement, but they are their own seperate thing). Does that make sense?
Moving onto 7S, I'm hoping for big things with Mister Miracle. Morrison's New Gods track record has been great so far (in particular Rock of Ages on JLA), and the preview pages and what little we know of it sound fantastic.
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brett
Apprentice
"We'll get you some cool new clothes, Tom"
Posts: 162
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Post by brett on Aug 27, 2005 13:13:53 GMT
Duh, and World War 3 was New God related as well. Bloody Maggedon! It almost makes me cry to look at the JLA nowadays.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 27, 2005 16:35:58 GMT
Brett...
It used to be true that Marvel were very good with continuity, but right now they just don't seem to like it at all. Their stories tend to be a complete mess, and worse than DC. it's very bizarre the way the two companies have switched over on that.
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Post by The Spider on Aug 27, 2005 17:57:44 GMT
It's interesting you mention the jarring to long time fans spider. Marvel hasn't really played loose and fast with continuity and such, while DC has. New X-Men was virtually a revamp of the book, more in line with say a Batman Year One, rather than a direct, continual, exactly linear progression of the titles, which Marvel usually did. As in it took what worked, left out what didn't, then marched straight on. Doesn't seem to be something that goes over well with Marvel books (although the Ultimate books sort of dilute that arguement, but they are their own seperate thing). Does that make sense? Yeah, I can see what you're saying... although I got the impression that DC actually HAD some sort of semi-cohesive continuity in the 90's (excepting craziness like Post-Zero Hour Hawkman, Legion troubles, etc). I don't think the Fourth World stuff strayed much, for instance... Simonson's ORION still utilized elements from Byrne's JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD series. The description of 7 SOLDIERS: MISTER MIRACLE by Morrison had Darkseid winning, Orion being a broken-down boxer on Earth, etc. This makes me wonder what other changes are in store. I'm a LITTLE concerned, but not so much that it turns into something you'd see on the Byrne board.
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Post by hector on Aug 27, 2005 21:53:33 GMT
New X-Men was virtually a revamp of the book, more in line with say a Batman Year One, rather than a direct, continual, exactly linear progression of the titles Year One was much more than a simple revamp, it was by all intents and purpose a reboot which retroactively change decades of Batman continuity, It was nothing like NXM at all. What you're saying is more akin to John Byrne or Mark Waid's FF. And JLA rocks.
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brett
Apprentice
"We'll get you some cool new clothes, Tom"
Posts: 162
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Post by brett on Aug 30, 2005 11:30:51 GMT
From an interview with Geoff Johns: www.the-trades.com/column.php?columnid=3522Let me just say [Censored] yeah!!!Prediction: Seven Soldiers takes place during One Year Later (Zatanna #3 virtually spells (heh) it out). And Quicksilver will be the bad guy behind House of M. Now, which deity do I have to sacrifice to for a Manhattan Guardian ongoing?
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 30, 2005 19:32:04 GMT
Dunno, Brett, but I'd be getting it, too MG is one of the best 7S titles so far, and they're all good
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