Batman Begins -- Spoilers--

[hector]

philster said:

I LOVED this film. Throw out all the other Batman movies, they're useless, worthless trash now compared to this movie

Throw out?

It crushes them, it grinds them, desintegrate them, it sends them to a black hole of oblivion.

This was just magnificent.

To say this movie is better than the previous ones, to even dare mention them in the same breath as this masterpiece by Christopher Nolan is practically a sin.

It's that good. No, wait, it's even better.

We're talking about a level of quality, of understanding and respect of the character, of craft and coherence previously only achieved by the first Superman. In fact, it could be even better than that, as it had no Otis.

Compared to other comic book movies, Begins has none of the weaknesses of Spider-Man or X-Men (or their sequels) and suprasses them by far. Interesting to note that the fine line between popcorn movie and film with depth which Hulk desperately tried to achieve and instead botched up completely resulting in a pretentious piece of trash is accomplished beautifully by Begins.

Everything about this movie is perfect. The cast is perfect. Bale owns Batman and Bruce Wayne, not only physically but internally as well. Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney are jokes compared to him. Alfred? For the first time he is shown as Bruce's backbone, as the importante piece of the mythos he is and Caine portrayed that as well as it can be. Oldman was scary as Gordon right out of Year One. Cillian Murphy was especially surpising for me, his Scarecrow is arrogant and scary, with just the perfect touch of insanity. I wasn't sure about Katie Holmes, but her character was essential to the movie, providing Bruce's moral compass which ultimately lead to his convictions as Batman, and Holmes did quite a good job here.

This movie is about Bruce Wayne, about who he is and his character. Even the best of comics haven't done as good a job with his motives and his moral codes as Begins does. This movie picks and chooses from the best making the sum greater than the parts. When he is in the suit, he's scary. He's no fat guy in tights or wimp in a rubber suit. He's a creature of the night, he's there to strike terror in the hearts of criminals, and Nolan knows just the way to show us that.

Gotham is simply perfect, it remind me of Spider-Man's New York. Realistic, but just a touch of otherworldiness. This is how superhero settings must be done, the larger than life characters stand up more against this kind of backdrop. Perhaps not as artisitic as Burton's Gotham or (thank God) as ridiculous as Schumaker's, this Gotham is an essential part of why this movie just works so well.

What else? Oh yeah, the fight choreography. It works absolutely great. I loved it. Just as Ra's said in the beggining, the fights aren't a dance, no Matrix-wireworks or carefully choreographed ballets. It's dirty, it's messy, and the camara angles showed that. Even in that last fight with Ra's.

The dialogue was spot on. It fits with this kind of movie. Just rock-solid in that aspect. It also helps the conviction from the actors delivering their lines.

This is the Batman of this generation, carefully tought and executed. Bruce's character is believable, his whole world is believable. This even trascends some of the material that inspired it. The movie borrows from the best part of the mythos and creates something truly memorable.

The movie was exactly what I expected, and I expected quite a lot. In his almost 70 years of history the Batman has been reinterpeted and reinvented a thousand times, but each one of us have our own vision of what the character is or what it should be. Nolan and Goyer's vision is the same as my own. That's why I loved it so much.

This movie is a rare thing. It is not often that the stars can align in this way. Not often we can find a director with a clear vision, and the talent to pull it off, and a writer who is truly able to capture the vision of such a primal icon and an endless array of truly gifted actors to bring that vision, and that understanding to life.

For the first time, Batman truly Begins.

[philster]

That's probably the most impressive post you've ever written, Hector, that I've read. Nice work man.

Took the words right out of my mouth --- and expanded on it a whole lot. All music to my ears though (figuratively speaking, of course).

[Sir Ped of Ro]

Hector

very interesting subjective and ultra positive look at the bat movie. ;D

my expectations are way far than the comments i've read from you, but i'm interested on seeing it on the big screen and being opened at what they have produced/directed

in general the movies has been having some very positive reviews, as positive as sin city...i just hope to not be as disapointed/bored as i was with sin city.

let the legend begins

regards

[hector]

philster said:

That's probably the most impressive post you've ever written, Hector, that I've read. Nice work man.

Took the words right out of my mouth --- and expanded on it a whole lot. All music to my ears though (figuratively speaking, of course).

Thanks, the movie just inspired me.

I could always say more, this movie was just so packed with goodness.

kermit said:

very interesting subjective and ultra positive look at the bat movie. ;D

With the exception of the penultimate paragraph, it was as objective as any movie review can be. I judged the acting, directing, script and cinematography, I was pretty low on geekness.

I'm also obejctive enoug when I said that if someones doesn't like this movie, they are wrong.

I can't really say if you'll like it more than Sin City, which I tought was great.

That being said, I can always begin with the geek stuff.

Needless to say... SPOILERS..





- I really liked Batman's moral code in the movie. I loved how he rejected the same weapons that killed his parents when he threw the gun. He's also pragmatic enough to choose justice over law whenever possible. His code againts killing isn't pathological as it's sometimes portrayed.

- I've always disagreed with Denny O'Neil assertion that that if the murder of the Waynes is ever solved it would render Batman's motivations meaningless (which is why he erased Joe Chill from continuity) I couldn't disagree more. Batman's quest isn't about solving the murder of his parents, that's too small. It's about preventing that from happening again. It's a quest for justice, not vengeance or even redemption.

- I've always tought the best Batman is really three characters: Bruce, the child whose parents were murdered and it's in a constant quest ofr justice. 'Batman' the one who strikes terror in the hearts of the criminals. and 'Bruce Wayne' the useless playboy. That's how it was in Batman: TAS and, Rachel's comments notwithstanding, in Begins.

- Swear to me Yes, Flass must have needed a change of underpants. Don't we always cheer when Batman 'interrogates' a criminal?

- Lucius Fox as 'Q'. Awesome. It was needed a role like that. It was great how it was left ambiguous whether he knew or not.

- It's a black...tank? The Batmobile simply rocks. I have a soft spot for Furst's sleek design from the first Batman, but this is just as well.

- The Fear Gas was great to show how Batman is seen. The criminals sees him as a monster. the children sees him as a superhero who will always come to the rescue.

- The card at the end....

- I'm Batman... Michael who?

Absolutely brilliant.

[Shan]

Hector, you sealed it with your last few posts.
No doubts now, I have got to see this moive.

We have plans to see it the first of the week.
Will let you know what I think after we've seen it.

And I better not be disappointed. ;D

Shan

[hector]

Cool! Don't bring the kids, though, until you watch it first. It may be too scary for them unless you decide otherwise.

[Shan]

You're right Hec. They aren't old enough for something like this yet.

We're still into the kid movies right now, and even those end up scaring them at times.

Shan

[hector]

Then you should definetely not bring them. The movie is scary, and loud. It is, after all, about fear.

And let's not forget Batman's origin. Which is a child's worst nightmare, and it's vividly portrayed in the film.

Talking about that, it is one of the strenghts of the movie. We get to know Thomas Wayne a bit, as a loving father, and a truly charitable wealthy man. Thus making his death all the more poignant.

Watching him show Bruce the pearl necklace gave me goosebumps.

[TheScreamMan]

I dont think u can completely dicount the first Burton Batman, which had a lot of great moments, and remins a favourite of mine.

Sure this is better by far, but that doesnt take away from the great piece of work that is Batman.

[philster]

Yes it does, Craig. Sorry. Not knocking Burton, as he had the right idea, but his movie pales in comparison.

[Sir Ped of Ro]

"...With the exception of the penultimate paragraph, it was as objective as any movie review can be. I judged the acting, directing, script and cinematography, I was pretty low on geekness.

I'm also obejctive enoug when I said that if someones doesn't like this movie, they are wrong.

I can't really say if you'll like it more than Sin City, which I tought was great.

That being said, I can always begin with the geek stuff..."

Hector

I was (clearly) teasing you with those comments...

you have all the right/liberty to blow your head off crying out loud that the movie rules...and whatever my opinion might be, seeing that kind of excitement/love for a character/cinematographique adaptation is to me a joy to behold.

growing up and still managing to be a kid is a might achievement nowadays

congrats for still believing in comic characters and fine actors/artists...

and by the way, now i'm longing to see it

regards, Pedro.

ps- what made you love sin city (if you presented a review in the past please let me know, i would love a nice/friendly discussion)

[hector]

kermit said:

growing up and still managing to be a kid is a might achievement nowadays

Growing...up...

Me?

ps- what made you love sin city (if you presented a review in the past please let me know, i would love a nice/friendly discussion)

I haven't posted anything about the movie, mainly because I watched it a few weeks after the discussion went down.

I liked the brutal style, the powerful translation from the comic book, the just-below-the surface depth of Miller's twisted love stories, the strenght of the actors, the thrice removed adaptation and revival of a lost genre. And that's just without mentioning the fantastic visual elements that comprised the movie.

It was a risky experiment that paid of hugely.


[/quote]

[metokhaesh]

By far the best Batman movie ever made and the most authentic to the character; he is truly the Dark Knight.

Metok ha'esh

[Shan]

Hey Hector, looks like we will be going to see it tomorrow afternoon.

Will let you know what I thought tomorrow night.

And it better be good. ;D

Shan

[Shan]

Hec growing up. Get real Pedro. He'll never grow up. ;D

Shan

[philster]

metokhaesh said:

By far the best Batman movie ever made and the most authentic to the character; he is truly the Dark Knight.

Metok ha'esh

Hear, hear.

Now who are you?

[Shan]

Change of plans. We are not going to see the Batman movie
tomorrow. Chris has to work.

The good thing is we went this afternoon.
And I .................... the movie. ;D

Shan

[Shan]

Now who are you?

A new member I think. ;D

Shan

[hector]

shantara said:

And I .................... the movie. ;D

That's just plain evil.

C'MON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shan]

What you didn't like my post about the Batman movie. I can't believe it.

I admit that this one was completely different from what I thought it would be. It had a whole lot more story to it and I liked that.

As for the movie over all, I liked it. I liked it alot and I am glad you guys talked me into going to see it.

I probably won't do a very good job of describing what I liked about it because I am not that good with words. Here goes though.

I thought Bale did a fantastic job as Batman. He gave feeling to the part and made him seem like a real person. That was an important part of the movie to me. I was also impressed by the actor who played Alfred. He did an excellent job with his role. I loved Oldman as Gordon. I don't think they could have gotten anyone who would have played the part any better. And the girl Rachel, I liked her, and Holmes did a good job with the part. I liked the idea of Rachel being a childhood friend.

Wayne's dad was great. I really like the way he supported his son and tried to help him. It gave me a good feeling. I almost cried when his mom and dad were killed. That was very sad.

The part where he refused to be the executioner showed what kind of man he really was and it gave me a good feeling.

I enjoyed the part of him finding the bat cave, getting all of his equipment, Alfred and Fox helping him. The Batmobile was awesome and I loved the part where Gordon said he wanted one of those.

I loved the part where Rachel gave him the arrowhead for his birthday and the part where she asked who he was and he said what he did to her and she knew who he was. I liked the part where he rescued her and where he helped her and the little boy. Gordon driving the Batmobile and helping.

I think my favorite part of the whole movie was at the end where Fox gets the other guy's job. That was cool. I didn't like the other guy at all.

Gordon handing him the joker card was a good one.

The only thing that I can say that I didn't like about the movie is that some of the fight scenes were a little fast and choppy to me.

Overall a very good movie and one that I will buy when it comes out on DVD.

Are you happy Hector? ;D
And thank you for encouraging me to go see it.

Shan