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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 17, 2009 4:41:01 GMT
I can't say I'm stunned, Ube, honestly! ;D
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 17, 2009 12:27:38 GMT
I suppose I should give examples of my idea of what a great singer sounds like, so here goes: Joe Longthorne - before his long battle with throat cancer, Joe was one of the all time great singers. Believe it or not, this clip is NOT him at his best. You should get the idea, though. Note the effortless power and control. Paul Potts - one of only two Opera singers I can bear to listen to, the other being the great Mario Lanza. The rest just annoy. There's just something about Paul's voice that lifts him out of the ordinary. Mario Lanza - remember this was recorded back in the day when sound quality in recordings was best described as 'utter crap'. It is a source of huge regret to me that I will never know what he truly sounded like at full quality Just magnificent! Hayley Westenra - the only woman to make my list, Hayley is my goddess of song. Here she takes a simple piece and makes it into something truly extraordinary. She does that a lot. There are a few that might make the list in time, but my standard for great is not low I could list many who are 'merely' very good.
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Post by kitty on Apr 17, 2009 18:09:12 GMT
I see both sides here... Eli being into emotional singing no matter how repetitive the word "love" is used and Flix is into destorted guitars no matter how often the words "enemy" "fire" and "war" are there - if someone understands it. In general you guys both like the things recordlabels want you to like. So you guys are the perfect fans for your destinctive genres.
I'm in Germany atm recording some stuff. My soundguy usually works with Metal(ish)bands like Dark Tranquillity, Samael, Kreator and all that not-jazz.
And here he is working with me, a very lyricbased popsinger chick.
He has some expereince with working with popsingers and explained to me that when he arranges and records popmusic he simply thinks - simple. Metal is much closer on classical music then pop, so it is easy to simply ignore the musicianship and cut it back so far that nothing but the vocals are left and supported by some elevator music. 99% of all popsongs can be played with just some chords and still sound great, so for a good popsong it's really just about having good vocals.
If one tries to play a metalsong, even one with good singing, with chords on an acoustic guitar, one will kill the song completely and make lots of people cry, same goes if one tries to play celine dion with double bassdrum...(lol actually, that would be fun).
Anyway, what I tried to say is that the question is still unanswerable...
To the Taylor Swift topic - if she really writes her songs, her melodywritng is alright for her genre.
But good god her lyrics are terribly annoying... when I read "teardrops on my guitar"'s chorus and it reads like this:
[glow=red,2,300]He's the reason for the teardrops on my guitar The only thing that keeps me wishing on a wishing star He's the song in the car I keep singing, don't know why I do[/glow]
I wanna quetion her ability to write lyrics that make any sense drastically... and can agree with Ube that he can't relate.
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Post by The Sonar Chicken on Apr 17, 2009 18:28:51 GMT
Actually, I'm curious as to how they'd remaster certain records. It's all a matter, I think... of enhancing and cleaning up the voices and instruments. 'Cos I've heard of remastered recordings from like... a long time ago. They were like awesome stuff. Mario Lanza sounds cool.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 17, 2009 19:42:40 GMT
Weeelll... While Flix is into Metal MORE than I am and certainly far more into Death Metal and the rest of the really hard end of the spectrum, it wouldn't be true to say I didn't like and listen to a lot of Metal. What I tend to talk about most is new artists I've discovered, though, and the last time Metal created a ton of good artists at one time was in the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal, way back in the 80s. I have almost every studio album from a fair few Metal greats, including AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Twisted Sister & Judas Priest. My main interest is more at the Rock/Hard Rock end of the spectrum, normally, though. To quote my own MySpace blog: "If the genius of Pop lies in its simplicity, then the genius of Metal lies in sheer musicianship." That still sounds about right. The trick to writing good Pop is to make something really simple that is not only perfect for the person singing it but which can be sung along to by everyone else. As someone I forget the name of once said, "If the errand boy can whistle it, it'll be a hit." Especially if they really WANT to whistle it. I don't think there's a single Taylor track the average person couldn't hum along to; she writes her songs to perfectly suit her voice and she shares her own thoughts and feelings, allowing her to connect deeply not only with the song but also with her target audience (Which is not thee or me, Kit, I know!). Her lyrics are actually pretty clever and a cut above most in her genre. If all that doesn't equate to a great songwriter - especially as she's only 19 NOW and wrote most of what we've heard between the ages of 14-17 - I don't know what does. Not everyone can be WS Gilbert when it comes to writing lyrics *** Yeah. Mario Lanza. Not dreadful, is he? ;D
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Post by Flix on Apr 17, 2009 22:17:32 GMT
Did anyone listen to the non-metal stuff I posted? It's perfectly possible to write melodic and beautiful songs and vocal melodies that don't sound poppy and generic. You can convey "teardrops on my guitar" emotions without actually saying something so lyrically bad. As to metal, I like 'singable' stuff like Black Sabbath and Maiden and Metallica and a good bit of 80's and 90's thrash/heavy stuff - not to mention power metal where the vocalists are really wailing - the death vocals just seemed more impressive to me - not to mention those who can switch back and forth seamlessly, like Mikael from Opeth. Paul Potts sounds amazing. In fact I got chills listening to it. I'm not sure what sets him apart though, except that he's got a fleshed out personality (and he's just good). Not to hijack this thread with metal discussion, but I so disagree! It was not long after that, mid-80's, we got the birth of thrash - Metallica, Megadeth, Iced Earth. These giants blow away NWoBHM except for Maiden. People think metal died with grunge's advent in the 90's...but it just went underground. But make no mistake, it's thriving, growing and changing. The 90's gave us melodic death metal like In Flames and Arch Enemy, Power Metal grew and produced epic bands like Blind Guardian. Therion merges symphony and opera with metal (if there's on clip you must watch it's this one), and I've already mentioned the mighty Opeth. Seriously, these guys represent a much larger pool of bands but I didn't drop a single name in this thread frivolously.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 17, 2009 23:54:13 GMT
I have to say, Thrash is the only type of Metal I outright loathe. Really, really hate it. Maiden are by far the best of the New Wave, but that's not to say the rest are so easy to dismiss. Even the Tygers Of Pan Tang were better than any frikkin' Thrash band, though, IMO! And I never liked the Tygers at all.
Still... I sense possibilities for another thread... ;D
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Post by Ubereil on Apr 18, 2009 7:38:27 GMT
Elliot, why not thrash? He has some expereince with working with popsingers and explained to me that when he arranges and records popmusic he simply thinks - simple. Metal is much closer on classical music then pop, so it is easy to simply ignore the musicianship and cut it back so far that nothing but the vocals are left and supported by some elevator music. 99% of all popsongs can be played with just some chords and still sound great, so for a good popsong it's really just about having good vocals. Oh, how I disagree... I think popsongs is all about the arrangements. Well, the song is the required base for a song to be good, but without a good arrangement it's usually screwed. Unless it's a really good balad. I'm definently not a 'less is more' person either. To the Taylor Swift topic - if she really writes her songs, her melodywritng is alright for her genre. The problem is that thanks to the arrangements it is elevator music. Übereil
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Post by The Sonar Chicken on Apr 18, 2009 12:56:35 GMT
Hmmm as soon as I'm done typing this humongous post, I'll post it. Darn delays.
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Post by kitty on Apr 18, 2009 20:22:34 GMT
Elliot, why not thrash? He has some expereince with working with popsingers and explained to me that when he arranges and records popmusic he simply thinks - simple. Metal is much closer on classical music then pop, so it is easy to simply ignore the musicianship and cut it back so far that nothing but the vocals are left and supported by some elevator music. 99% of all popsongs can be played with just some chords and still sound great, so for a good popsong it's really just about having good vocals. Oh, how I disagree... I think popsongs is all about the arrangements. Well, the song is the required base for a song to be good, but without a good arrangement it's usually screwed. Unless it's a really good balad. I'm definently not a 'less is more' person either. To the Taylor Swift topic - if she really writes her songs, her melodywritng is alright for her genre. The problem is that thanks to the arrangements it is elevator music. Übereil It's fine you disagree but you are wrong <3 ;D
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Post by The Sonar Chicken on Apr 22, 2009 4:21:55 GMT
I deleted my posts. My tastes in music suck. I should be shot for it.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 22, 2009 12:04:39 GMT
Everyone has their own tastes, Luci. Don't worry about it Can't think of a single thing I listen to that at least some other people don't hate.
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Post by Ubereil on Apr 22, 2009 12:27:09 GMT
Can't think of a single thing I listen to that at least some other people don't hate. I can: Nirvana! Übereil
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 22, 2009 12:30:00 GMT
I loathe Nirvana. My point is made
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Post by Ubereil on Apr 22, 2009 14:32:07 GMT
I knew that... Übereil
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 22, 2009 15:49:10 GMT
I knew that you knew that! But did you know that I knew that you knew that? ;D
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Post by The Sonar Chicken on Apr 22, 2009 20:15:16 GMT
Sorry EK, I was in a very very cranky mood. I was snapping and yelling at people offline and online. Oh man... should've taken a few more deep breaths.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 22, 2009 20:16:47 GMT
Long as you feel better now, Luci We all have off days, trust me
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Post by The Sonar Chicken on Apr 22, 2009 20:19:21 GMT
Yes, you're right. With that said, I've backups of my post somewhere. Reposting it now. (What? You don't think I'd write something that long without multiple versions on my pc? ;D)
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 22, 2009 20:22:18 GMT
ROFL! You're a lot more organised than I am, Luci! ;D
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