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Post by Flix on Jul 8, 2009 11:37:12 GMT
I know I didn't "win" the last one but I had one I thought you guys could chew on for a bit:
One day a close female friend of some years tells you a secret - there was a period recently where she was bored and lonely, and just for fun she made up a fake "persona" on a popular social networking site and used it to interact with people she already knew in real life. She had no ill intent, but went to pretty great lengths to make this fake person seem real. One person (someone she already knew) that she used the fake profile to chat with fell in love with the fake girl. This guy also happens to be an acquaintance of yours. When your female friend realized that the guy was hopelessly in love with the fake girl she knew it gone too far and "killed" the girl off (with a fake terminal disease) to end the whole thing.
The guy is crushed and saddened but picks up with his life. You then become a closer friend to him over the internet, and while getting to know him you realize he still leaves little posts and love messages on the fake dead girl's page. Almost every day, you either interact with this guy somehow or see how he is still pining over a fake girl.
A little time passes and you now consider yourself equally close to either friend. While you were not sworn to secrecy, it was obvious you were expected to keep quiet about the whole thing. Telling anyone would be considered a betrayal, as your female friend confided in you that she feels guilty and would rather pretend the whole thing did not happen. However, your male friend would also likely consider it a betrayal if he found you were helping keep this huge secret from him. These two people know each other in real life, and neither is actually interested in the other person. There is no chance she will tell him herself.
What do you do?
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Jul 8, 2009 11:58:29 GMT
I would talk to my female friend and ask them to go see/talk to this person and either a) try to get to know them, or b) tell them the truth (a and b would depend on whether the female friend was attached or not). I would also try to explain that he's still leaving messages, and is "smitten".
If that doesn't work out then I try to tactfully tell him what happened, and when he's over it, I may introduce him to the real person.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 8, 2009 12:58:04 GMT
Pretty much what DPR said. The truth has to come from her, not from me. Being caught between two friends is not pleasant but getting involved means losing both of them - and would certainly mean a major breach of confidence, which is never good.
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Post by Flix on Jul 8, 2009 17:51:41 GMT
You may have guessed but this one is actually REAL. I've obviously stuck with the "stay quiet" decision for a while now...but I can't talk to this guy without thinking the whole time about this big ugly secret I'm keeping from him. I would want someone to tell me, and I suppose that's why I have this impulse to let him know when everyone else just looks at me like I'm crazy for wanting to say anything.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 8, 2009 19:02:23 GMT
Yeah, I did guess, Flix.
Problem is that while you would want to know (As would I in your shoes) the person who really HAS to do the admitting/telling is the young lady, not you.
If you tell the guy, he's gonna be grateful, yes, but he's also going to wonder why you didn't tell him sooner and he will be COMPLETELY outraged at the girl - not least because she should have told him but lacked the guts to do so. She'll go straight to 'deadly enemy' in one move, from his POV. There's really no way to forgive something like that if he hears it from you, not her.
You go straight onto her enemy list because of the strife. And anyone who hears about it will wonder just how trustworthy you are if you can't keep such an important secret...
Point is, no-one wins in that scenario.
The only way anyone wins at all is if you get the girl to do what she should have had the guts and decency to do in the first place.
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Post by janggut on Jul 9, 2009 3:14:03 GMT
Flix, while u feel compelled to tell the guy about the whole thing, u have to remind yourself that this situation is not yours to handle, not a problem for u to fix. there is as much virtue in inaction as there is in action. trick is to know which is best for the situation.
i agree with DPR & EK in that u can listen to all the things both sides tell u but u shouldn't have to act on what u've learnt. the one sure advice i can give; don't ever take sides.
what can u do?
about the girl - talk to her some more. find out if she's willing to own up to the guy. she seems sorry enough so there's no point in making her repent for whatever she did.
about the guy - of course u have to know well how the guy would react to something that's earth-shattering, to judge if he can take it or not. at the same time, try to wean this guy off the imaginary persona. how? i have no idea.
in any case, don't ever feel guilty for not telling the guy the truth. it is not your call. besides, how can u tell that the truth is good for him? sure, he may know of the truth at last, but it's from u, not the creator of the persona. a lot of bad things can happen when truth doesn't come out from the original source.
be a true friend to both. keep whatever they tell u to yourself & only yourself.
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Post by Hildor on Jul 10, 2009 10:33:59 GMT
I would solve it the fast, but hard way. If such a thing would really happen, my general thought would be that it's going WAY too far. I would tell the girl to make an end to all the nonsense. And if she doesn't I'd do it myself. Yes it would be very hard and painful. But I wouldn't allow such an unreal thing to drag on that far.
If such a situation is running totally out of hand, there's only thing you should do. And that is to stop it right away. You have to remember that the whole situation is actually not "real". I'm not saying that friendship or maybe even love over the internet can't be real. What I mean is that the guy's pain for his "deceased lover" isn't real. Because there actually isn't a deceased lover.
You are only guilty for not telling the truth to the guy immedeately after you knew of it. Prolonging the girl's lie is NOT the right thing to do. In that way you only hurt your other friend. You can either make the situation worse for the both of them, by prolonging the girl's lie, the lie in which the guy is living in. Or you can actually save the guy from the lie he's living in and learn the girl something. If she did something wrong she has to stand up for it. She can't try to hide her mistake while someone else suffers from it. What she did was very stupid. But letting that mistake drag on is a lot more stupid.
While this solution is radical and paiful for the three of you, it is from my point of view the only thing you can do. Tell both of them the truth: what really happend and also why you didn't tell the truth beforehand.
(I wonder what the rest of you think of what I just wrote.)
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Post by twoheadedragon on Jul 10, 2009 10:46:19 GMT
Whoa! All this time your friend (the guy) has had his love life filled with nothing but a few Megabytes worth of forgery! The longer he doesn't know, the harder it'll hit him when he finds out. Unless he falls in love and gets married (which would make it a lot easier), it'll probably leave a deep scar if you do it yourself. Whatever the case you'd better talk to the girl, don't go straight to the guy without discussing the various options with the girl first! Otherwise, you'll make enemies out of both friends, and potentially a lot more enemies down the line. I agree with Janggut: If you don't think he can take it, try to wean him off it somehow. Take his mind of it any way you can, whether it's going out with him, or even trying to help him find a new love interest. If he can take it, then do what DPR and EK said. Good luck man, I pray you find the right solution in this delicate matter.
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Post by LaFille on Jul 11, 2009 1:38:46 GMT
I would solve it the fast, but hard way. If such a thing would really happen, my general thought would be that it's going WAY too far. I would tell the girl to make an end to all the nonsense. And if she doesn't I'd do it myself. Yes it would be very hard and painful. But I wouldn't allow such an unreal thing to drag on that far. If such a situation is running totally out of hand, there's only thing you should do. And that is to stop it right away. You have to remember that the whole situation is actually not "real". I'm not saying that friendship or maybe even love over the internet can't be real. What I mean is that the guy's pain for his "deceased lover" isn't real. Because there actually isn't a deceased lover. You are only guilty for not telling the truth to the guy immedeately after you knew of it. Prolonging the girl's lie is NOT the right thing to do. In that way you only hurt your other friend. You can either make the situation worse for the both of them, by prolonging the girl's lie, the lie in which the guy is living in. Or you can actually save the guy from the lie he's living in and learn the girl something. If she did something wrong she has to stand up for it. She can't try to hide her mistake while someone else suffers from it. What she did was very stupid. But letting that mistake drag on is a lot more stupid. While this solution is radical and paiful for the three of you, it is from my point of view the only thing you can do. Tell both of them the truth: what really happend and also why you didn't tell the truth beforehand. (I wonder what the rest of you think of what I just wrote.) The pain of the guy is real... And that's where the heart of the problem is, it's that it's over a lie, a story that isn't real. I honestly don't know what I'd do in such situation... Both ways, keeping it to yourself or telling seem valid and equally painful to me. And the "better late than never" saying stands in each case. One thing is sure though, if I didn't expect something like that from the girl it would change my perception of her and make me question what kind of trust I can put in her. I don't think the decision of what to do should be based on who of the two you're the closest friend to, however; more on what you think is in everyone's best interest and what you can live the better with in your conscience. Having the girl come forward and admit it to him would be ideal, and if she doesn't know how the guy is still hung on to that story then I think you should tell and show her that... Seeing how she'd rather pretend it didn't happen, she may still not feel bad with it enough to confess what she did to him, and in this case all your dilemma remains. In any case, if you do decide to tell him, I think you need to let her know you will before. You could always also ask her what she would do if you told him yourself without necessarily intending to, to test the water, though you have big chances to face a storm on her part anyway. Yuck, the anonymity of internet has such ugly sides... I hope the thread helps you, at least, and that you can make a decision you'll be serene with.
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Post by janggut on Jul 12, 2009 8:44:25 GMT
@ Hildor -> that's how u would handle the situation, so i totally respect your opinion & decision. the consequence(s) would be the main concern, looking at most of the posts here. how would the guy react? how would the girl react? what does truth mean to them? & in this case, does it help? how? 1st & foremost this is the girl's moral dilemma more than anybody else's. the reason she told Flix could be; -> she needed to tell the truth to someone, therefore to unload that burden she's been keeping to herself. -> she needed someone to agree with her decision -> she needed someone to help her decide on this situation -> & many more it could well be all of the above. @ Flix -> u can ask her why she told u this. what would she want u to do with what she had told u? let her know of the dilemma she's put u into. please don't use what she had told u 2 threaten her to action (as in owning up to the guy). remember; u are as much her friend as u are the guy's. therefore be understanding to her as u are to the guy. yes, the guy still misses the dead persona. however, has his life stopped to a standstill after the persona's death? u know him well. observe. probably he's pining for her still, however he's slowly moving on. may take time. yes, years. but he is moving on. that's a good start as any. don't ruin that slow but sure start with revelation of truth which may turn whatever progression into regression. as a friend, u have very good intention. however that good intention may prove destructive to the guy who's slowly letting that dead persona go. it's alright. he's coming to terms with the 'death'. 'she' may be fake but his feelings are true. if there is one good thing that comes out of this; it's that your friend is able to get over a heartbreak. he's been through a rough patch. the next time, if he ever faces another, it won't be his first. he'll pick himself up again & move on.
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Post by Flix on Jul 22, 2009 20:21:39 GMT
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. They were all taken into consideration.
I'm keeping quiet about it. The girl is not going to say anything, as far as she's concerned, she's put it behind her and forgotten it. The guy is moving on as best he can, I suppose.
It's been weird, when my moral sense tells me to do something that wouldn't actually make anyone's life better. I also realized that part of the reason I wanted to say something is so I wouldn't have to keep harboring a secret - and ultimately that's a selfish reason - it might take the burden off me but it would screw with their lives.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 22, 2009 20:50:47 GMT
I think you are doing the right thing, Flix. The girl is clearly bad news and you should remember that in future dealings with her, but in this sort of scenario there are literally no good results for anyone. I think you're going with 'least worst' pretty well, here.
As Lews never did take his turn, do you want to pick a winner so the Moral Conundrums can continue?
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Post by Flix on Jul 22, 2009 21:54:53 GMT
Well everyone had something wise to offer (Hildor's suggestion was my gut reaction to the whole thing), but I'd say Jang won since his posts helped me get to the heart of my own feelings and motivations.
Since Jang's been scarce around the forums lately though, you can make the next one EK if you'd like, as you had some good practical insight into the consequences had I spoken out.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 22, 2009 21:58:41 GMT
I'll leave it a few days to see if Jang is around to post, as he's the winner If not, I'll come up with something...
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Post by twoheadedragon on Jul 23, 2009 13:02:05 GMT
I'll leave it a few days to see if Jang is around to post, as he's the winner If not, I'll come up with something... You always have something...
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 23, 2009 13:03:09 GMT
"Necessity is the Mother of invention." ;D
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Post by janggut on Jul 25, 2009 4:17:15 GMT
@ EK -> can i recycle this thread for the next conundrum or do i have to make a new one? anyway, i've one for all of u to consider. like Flix's, it's real life situation. i have this colleague (A) who teaches an accounting paper which is mostly on theories. last Monday another colleague (B) & i sat in A's class. it was the first class of the semester & we wanted an overview of the paper so we can help our students (in terms of English) who take this paper. B & i noticed that A mispronounced a lot of words. it was really bad. as English teachers we thought that A needs to attend English course. of course, we keep this thought to ourselves. a few days ago, i overheard some students in my class during break. they were talking in Mandarin & they were laughing. to my surprise (more like shock) they were laughing at A. they pronounced the words the way she mispronounced them & they laughed. yes, that's quite cruel but the way i see it, A had it coming with her atrocious English. now, what should i do? as a colleague, English teacher, person? on what grounds? do i tell her? do i tell my superior? do i keep quiet? looking forward to your views & how u would handle this.
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Post by twoheadedragon on Jul 25, 2009 7:30:44 GMT
An interesting, and fairly common situation here (minus the students making fun of the teacher, since their pronunciation is even worse). I'd advise you help the teacher. Try to tell her (in a nice way, of course) how to pronounce certain words, and encourage her to find a way to practice her English more often. Of course, you shouldn't present this in a blunt way. Present it tactfully.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 25, 2009 10:13:44 GMT
New thread would be better, Jang. Just to keep them all clearly delineated, as it were
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Post by janggut on Jul 25, 2009 11:37:01 GMT
@ EK -> ok, will do! @ 2HD -> sorry, my good man, but can u re-post that in the new thread? thanks!
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