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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Jul 29, 2009 19:25:26 GMT
how can a "humanitarian project" ever be over funded?
For that matter how can any project ever be over funded if the people involved are not all honest?
After all, the money spent on any project will tend to expand to encompass the budget given (if for no other reason than to ensure that next time the budget doesn't get cut)
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Post by Glance A'Lot on Jul 29, 2009 21:50:46 GMT
Of course no project ever is, Dark - I was being sarcastic...
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Post by kitty on Jul 30, 2009 2:06:29 GMT
What Eli & Co just said might all be true, but it doesn't change the fact that ETrre just called himself and made it clear too, a racist... why exactly does it matter that he might have "a good point", racism is racism... argh..
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Jul 30, 2009 8:33:23 GMT
However for the most part, people that are genuinely racist will not usually admit to being so.
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Post by kilgoretrout on Jul 30, 2009 9:16:03 GMT
At least not face to face with their intended target of hate.
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Post by Glance A'Lot on Jul 30, 2009 9:20:48 GMT
Did anybody say racism was good? In principle racism is not different from national chauvinism, religious zeal, society class or the differentiation on what clothes one wears. To me it appears a true observation followed by wrong conclusions: (I'm taking the initial post as general sample, not as Terr's personal attitude) "Almost all natives drop out of school before graduating".So does a majority in other groups of various definition. "Almost all natives have some form of substance abuse problems."Same here, "Almost all [insert group] have abuse problems" Most natives are on wellfare, as well as their government pay bonuses.There would be a lot more people on welfare than just 'natives'. "Most natives live on reserves, which are unhygenic, uneducation friendly, and often foster extremists who hate white people."Any major cities has 'ghettos' in which all of this is true also. Most natives believe that they are being [Censored]ed by the man, and that secretly white people are out to get them (and now brown people too)Any under-privileged group will develop its enemy image - and if its 'the government' or 'the establishment' or 'the banks' "The most common addiction on native properties is amongst children, besides alcohol of course, who now huff gas fumes, causing themselves major brain damage over their child hood."I'm pretty sure that this is not exclusive to children of natives. The majority of native children are born with fetal alcohol syndrome, in Canada.And, if we look around, we'll find various other groups with that truth. "Criminals are vastly disproportionately, you guessed it, Native on a per capita basis."That is elementary statistics juggling anyway... What I'm trying to get at is that all these facts have a common denominator - and it isn't race. Nor religion, nor nationality, nor... Any such interpretation would be a reduction to a pre-set mindframe - a prejudice. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy - I can always find or generate statistics to support my point. Those aren't even false, nonetheless their interpretation may be wrong, or limited, or biased, with the result of the conclusions being narrower than the problem.
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Post by Terrordar on Jul 30, 2009 14:37:02 GMT
Really Glance. You don't live here, you don't see it.
Yea, you can find examples of "Well, we have jimmy down the road and he huffed gas until he was retarded." from time to time.
These folks its more "Half the neighborhood's kids are huffing gas. Shame."
You can pretend that just because a person from another group of people *MAY* do the same things, means that the statistics mean nothing, but the simple truth is the scale we're talking about here is no joke.
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Jul 30, 2009 14:55:40 GMT
You can say the same thing about gang culture. The problem is that unless actual help is given it's a cycle that can't easily be broken due to the way that children learn. Yes a few may "escape" but the vast majority don't have the "lucky break" (which can often be considered an unlucky break) that makes them reconsider their situation.
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Post by Glance A'Lot on Jul 30, 2009 15:21:02 GMT
Really Glance. You don't live here, you don't see it. So I live somewhere else, and I see other things - not all good at all, and a lot quite similar to what you describe. Only those are not 'natives', certainly not any North American First Nation descendants, and nonetheless the problems are quite similar. And what does that tell us?
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Post by kilgoretrout on Jul 30, 2009 22:35:53 GMT
Any party who feels some hate or disdain for any race of people because of some soicial situation , should really learn to recognize the bigger culprit. It's not race as much as perpetual cylces of abuse and poverty coupled with historic soicial and political injustice.
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Post by Terrordar on Jul 30, 2009 23:40:14 GMT
Free money is a social unjustice? Yea, your right, its socially unjust to the people who actually pay taxes.
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Post by kilgoretrout on Jul 31, 2009 2:25:03 GMT
Tell me , why are these people given money in the first place? or what is the supposed reason?
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Post by Terrordar on Jul 31, 2009 2:28:13 GMT
The reason they are given money, is because of land claims. The natives basically say they own the land that Canada is built on, so the government of Canada pays 'reparations' for having the Natives kill one another, and then selling their land to the Hudson's bay Company, who then sold that land to the Canada/the British Government.
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Post by kilgoretrout on Jul 31, 2009 2:45:48 GMT
So canada bought land from a corporation who purchased land from the natives?
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Post by Terrordar on Jul 31, 2009 2:52:48 GMT
Essentially.
And the natives felt they got a raw deal from the Hudson's bay company, so they blame the government of Canada and basically demand reparations all the time. Oh, and they think they should run the country, cuz its theirs (even though they didn't build [Censored]all in this country), and they feel they shouldn't be taxed. So they aren't.
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Post by kilgoretrout on Jul 31, 2009 2:59:50 GMT
Whatever the political issue, I could argue against manifest destiny, I mean the corporation if not paying them , might have just killed them with small pox and Guns. I think what you are against isn't the race of people, it's the sociopolitical climate of the country regarding what I assume is a minority....
Maybe a word like prejudice or bigoted might be more appropriate rather than racist
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 31, 2009 3:12:18 GMT
I suspect Terror chose the more emotive word in preference to the more accurate ones he might have used instead.
I think your analysis is correct, Kilgore.
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Post by Hildor on Jul 31, 2009 8:42:21 GMT
Telling Terre to "Just. Stop. Posting." isn't that opression, facism or whatever then? Terre has pointed out his reasons for bad feelings against the natives very clearly. If a group of people is just sitting there, being unemployed and taking drugs, what would you think? Would you say nothing about it because "it's being racist"?
Ofcourse racism is wrong. But stopping every arguement about a problem in the name of "racism is wrong" is even worse. The first step is recognising a problem. The problem is there. But it can't be solved if it can't be recognised.
Terre gets called a nazi for that. Why? Does he KILL the people that are huffing gas or are unemployed? Does he take away their chance of getting the problems solved? No, he complains about it. Sounds like more than a minor difference to me...
If your dad is unemployed and doesn't do anything about it, what do you say? "Dad, we are hungry and you don't do anything about it. But I won't complain because saying that makes me a nazi."? No, you say "Dad, get a freaking job!". If your dad is addicted to alcohol, what do you say? "Dad, you are addicted to alcohol, but I won't say anything about it, because I'm not a nazi."? No, you say "Dad, you are killing yourself. Stop it."
Terre has taken a step too far by looking at the native man as a man who can't get his things done. They got into that situation, they aren't born with that in their genes. But telling him to shut up because he taken that step too far isn't really helpful is it? Just explaining why he has taken the step too far, that's helpful.
You feel sorry that the poor native guy has been opressed and now is drinking himself to death. And then you don't say anything about it because your ancestors did the opression. You give him more money because you feel sorry for him and you are happy that you didn't open your "racist" mouth. Oh that's very nice, the drinking native is happy with his raised drinking salary. But is he actually helped? The native doesn't live occording to the western white man standards. But as far as I know, drinking yourself to death is nowhere a standard.
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Post by Terrordar on Jul 31, 2009 8:53:08 GMT
They brought that oppression onto themselves. Remember, the natives who are alive today, are the descendants of the natives who killed the other natives for the British.
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Post by Hildor on Jul 31, 2009 9:03:29 GMT
Oh sorry, I wasn't talking about the Canadian natives anymore in my last paragraph. I was generaly adressing the problem of our guilt for opressed groups. The guilt should be there, but the guilt shouldn't stop us from solving problems.
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