Obesity, Anorexia & Co

[kitty]

So I had a "WTF IS WRONG with people!!!!" moment today when I was linked to a fat-lover website. I wrote a quick article about it and thought I share and maybe start a discussion (cause it is a controversial and interesting topic)

Is obesity ok for you?

[Cat]

Ineteresting stance on obesity, I must say, not the first of it's kind though. I must admit, slightly hypocritically I might add, I do agree with you. On many levels. Why should we accept something that we can so easily change? Something that IS preventable.

If then we were to take precautions to prevent a rising level of obesity, and furthermore to decrease obesity for future generations, should we then look into controlling what people eat, how they exercise? Everyone is so different, the same thing wouldn't work for everyone. Should we administer gastric bands and bypasses to those who have a 'geniune' reason for their mass (not just eating too much KFC and no exercise). And then how can one tell how much of a person is genuine reason and how much isn't. What about those people with mental illnesses who eat for comfort? Are they 'genuine' or not? If not, and they are to be treated like those who are just lazy, then surely this will damage their mental health further? And on the other extreme what about those who fast for comfort? If people have made themselves like it, unless extremely motivated it's unlikely that they're going to change themselves. So it really needs to be sorted.

And yes, I am going to say it. What if this discrimination of people because of their mass sparks a growing number of ED's among people (not just teenagers, I might add). Those who would worry about their weight normally, then might be twice as anxious, and spiral down. It'd affect more than just the obese people.

Using myself as an example, several years back I had to take medication to prevent me from dying that messed up lots of parts of my body, they gave me multiple medications for it that caused me to put on a lot of weight, despite my exercise. Consequently now, I often find it very hard to eat, I find I don't want to, or I'm not deserving of it, because it's just going to make me worse. And I still do yoga and I love jogging. And nothing changes. If there were to be a discrimination made, and I was to be "controlled" in some way, through maybe gastric bands or pills, or another diet. Then surely that would simply fuel my "condition" further, and just reinforce what I already think about myself, and the situation I am. And furthermore to my peers and the public. Diet and exercise doesn't always work, and consequently I may have to be put on another set of pills to try and stop the side affects of the first batch of pills. *sigh*

The point is. Even though I agree with you, it's very hard to make a choice to do anything about, with political correctness being what it is nowadays too, it may never be dealt with. So until there is a decent "solution", I'm with the fatties.

[Elliot Kane]

The main non-medical cause of obesity is low self esteem. Working to eliminate the cause is probably the best solution in this case - and lessens the risk of increasing anorexia and other serious eating disorders very thin people are prey to (Many/most of which also originate in low self esteem, of course). Curing one thus lessens the risk of the other.

[fughawzi]

I wouldn't say obesity is accepted at all and that people do see it as a medical illness, albeit one less glamorized compared to how anorexia is seen. For every single thing there is, someone has a fetish for it. Are these people in the majority? Not remotely. The move to be more accepting is not saying it isn't a bad thing, more stop being asses about it. Fat people know they're fat, they really don't need to hear the comments and most of them are actively trying to get healthier. It is more of a "Shut the [Censored]ing hell up already!" than anything else.

Before I was diagnosed with the illnesses I actually had, some psychiatrists decided to put me on anti-depressants. On top of those, it turned out I had a thyroid condition that was undiagnosed for years, so I was fairly heavy as a child. The thing that made me so angry is that I ate healthier and exercised more than most of the people around me, yet couldn't lose any weight. People always say they aren't railing against the sick ones but really, when you see someone who is fat, do you assume they're sick or have just eaten too many potato chips? The people who are more normal sized/a little chubbier that I know are the ones who are actually healthy, the skinny ones have fast metabolisms and don't pay attention to what goes in their mouths.

I have no idea if I'm making any concrete sense as I am still half asleep, but I'm going to keep typing! I have struggled with eating disorders for five years now and I just think it would be nice if everyone just shut up about bodies for a little while. Being HEALTHY is different from being THIN. That is what we need to focus on. I genuinely think if people had higher self esteems they would eat better, like Elliot said.

So, to recap: Thin does not equal healthy and healthy does not equal thin. Fat people know they are fat. Stop [Censored]ing talking about body sizes and looks and oh my god I am going to kill everyone.

(Kitty, this is not at you. Just have angeeer.)


Okay, what I mean is:



That is considered plus sized!


Which is not the point of this thread, but I am having a slight flare up.

[Flix]

Aug 23, 2009 20:56:01 GMT fughawzi said:

I wouldn't say obesity is accepted at all and that people do see it as a medical illness

Yeah but it seems to me that it's treated more like a personal flaw, like failing to bathe or being really, really loud - something that's "in the person's control" if they would just get in gear and fix the problem. I don't really see how anyone who's never been obese or overweight can say that's it's easy to slim down by doing such-and-such.

[fughawzi]

Aug 23, 2009 21:20:45 GMT Flix said:

I don't really see how anyone who's never been obese or overweight can say that's it's easy to slim down by doing such-and-such.

I completely agree.

And people who say it is easy to be thin - If you think it is, you have a fast metabolism. Most people have to work their asses off just to maintain their current weight. It is not an easy task.

[Elliot Kane]

The girl in that pic is supposed to be plus sized?!? She looks totally normal, to me...

[Ubereil]

Aug 23, 2009 21:30:24 GMT fughawzi said:

And people who say it is easy to be thin - If you think it is, you have a fast metabolism. Most people have to work their asses off just to maintain their current weight. It is not an easy task.

It's kind of how I relate to addictions. I'm a person who's really non-addictive. I've never had problems with doing too much of something. I don't blame addicts for being weak, because I've always been able to cope (c or k btw?). I don't know what it's like if you're not able to.

As for weight, I don't HAVE to cope with keeping my weight down. I eat more than everyone I know yet I'm far slimmer than most pepole. I'm one of the lucky pepole in that respect. This doesn't give me the right to look down on pepole who aren't. If anything I should respect them for fighting a battle I don't have to fight. Especially if they're winning, but otherwise as well. In this case I've never HAD to be strong. So I can't look down on pepole for being weak.

So basicly, I agree.

Aug 23, 2009 21:38:30 GMT Elliot Kane said:

The girl in that pic is supposed to be plus sized?!? She looks totally normal, to me...

Matching upper body and face and I'd totally tap that... (Well, I'm not that tappy, so maybe not...)

Übereil

[kitty]

Stig & Ash - how I said in my article, it is indeed a difference if a medical reason is behind weightproblems in either direction, that wasn't what I was talking about. (I was on antipsychotics & antidepressants myself)

I'm also not talking about a little chubby. I'm talking about plain fat people. If they aren't ill it IS their fault that they weigh 200kg.

Sure Eli had a point, low self-esteem can be seen as kind-of-an-illness aswell.

The major point of my "wtf" moment though was that it is indeed (Flix had it) seen as something personal instead of open suicide.

Since I'm in Aussieland, I see heaps of people drive around in those little motorized wheelchairs. A good percentage of those people are fat. I saw people in this things with a belly hanging to the ground and a double bacon deluxe meal in the hands. These people are what I'm talking about.

Apart from killing themselfs and in case they have children, possibly those aswell, they are also a pain for the rest of us. They require specilized seating, hospitalbeds, scales, escalators, lifts...etc which is paid by the rest of us. They take more sick-days than not-obesed employees. They simply use up more food too.

And yet, they go into TV shows and talk about how great it is to have their illness.
People wouldn't let an emaciated anorexic do that.

Don't get me wrong people, I'm not advertising anorexia, I simply wanted to point out the hypocracy of society. Just because it is (nowadays) so normal to see morbidly obesed people around, it is not alright.

And I got seriously mad when I went to that fatlover website and read articles about people wanted to "feed" someone "until she can't move anymore" - that is (imho) a form of active euthanasia!

And that just made me sick a little...

[Ubereil]

Food can be addictive by the way. Especially fat food.

That's worth pointing out.

Übereil

[kitty]

So is crack, still it is recognized ( the addiction) as something distroying and something that has to be stop.

[Ubereil]

My point wasn't that since it's addictive we should just leave them be. Just that stopping isn't as easy as you make it out to be.

Übereil

[kitty]

^Fair enough.

But my point is that people, with justifying and ignoring the fact that obesity is a serious self-induced illness that effects everyone, let those obese people, maybe foodaddicts, think it is ok that they expand to unrealistic sizes.

So I'm probably actually not critizing fat people here but the people who support this behaviour.

It's like with people who glorify models who are 1,80 and weigh 35kg.

The very same story but handled so differently in our societies! And that just pisses me off to no end...

[Flix]

I don't see what your big problem is, really.

Yeah, it's not healthy. But if some people want to live their lives that way, why shouldn't they? If some people admire that body type, let them enjoy it.

Now, obviously, I think they're out of luck if they think mainstream society should "fit" them if they're gigantic (like movie theatre seats, as one small example).

But really, so what if people are fat? "They clog up the health-care system with all their fat-related illnesses." Smoking is bad for you too, but you don't see hospitals refusing to treat lung cancer patients because they did it to themselves (as they do with diabetes patients who can't control their blood sugar). I have a friend who's a nurse and it seems like every day he's complaining about some fat diabetic that is having complications and there's nothing but scorn and contempt in his voice because it's "their fault." Sorry, who knew that mainstream, tasty, convenient food was both addictive and destroyed your ability to process blood sugar?

[kitty]

Why it matters? Because we all DO have to pay for that!

Now, obviously, I think they're out of luck if they think mainstream society should "fit" them if they're gigantic (like movie theatre seats, as one small example).

Well it's nice that you think it isn't fair but it's exactly what happens. They do make bigger hospital beds, they do build bigger seats, they do make special cars - and guess who's paying for all that.

And yes, it is annoying me when people get fat and diabetic and billions go into research for curing diabetes instead of HIV etc...

And with smoking, it is illegal in most countries to advertise it in TV, in the internet or in magazines with "it's so hot when you cough your black lunge out laura" and they fought a long time about "sexy smoking cowboy is the lonely hero" commercials.

Personally, I would establish some laws for people that are seriously obese (and not ill). There's a courier service in alabama (i think it was) who started to set a limit for employees who are obese. When someone was weighing seriously than over 100kg, he had to slim down in a year or would lose his job.

And I probably would force parents to write a food diary for their kids for the first 8 years or so, to monitor if they give the kid a bad diet. That would help kids getting fed better and prevent some people from getting them in the first place.

[Elliot Kane]

More bureaucracy is never the answer. And STDs are mostly as self inflicted as obesity, so that's not a good example, Kit.

What needs doing is a better education system, that includes esteem building and learning about health, diet, etc. Train our young people to care for themselves better when they are children and they'll do it automatically when they are older.

[kitty]

STD's can't be seen. Not using a condom is stupid but it does not automatically make life harder for the majority of us when my neighbour has genital herpes.

I'm not for educating children in dietry needs, simply because it has been clear that only their parents/guardian can teach them right behaviour. You're british, Jamie Olivers fail to introduce healthy food in british school is the best example. Parents disliking the action came to the school and gave children hamburgers.

It's the parents/caretakers that need to be educated.

[Elliot Kane]

Old habits die hard. Educating adults in new ways of doing things is vastly harder than teaching the next generation.

Jamie Oliver had the right idea, but sadly there was only the one of him and his ideas weren't put into full practise, nor properly backed up with lessons. A definite shame.

I have no idea what your national health system is like, but in Britain, with the NHS, we DO pay for treatment of STDs.

[kitty]

But what would be the point Eli?

When the kid comes home, had a lunch of stamed celery and couscous and learned that a vitamin D deficiancy can kill you - what does he do with this knowledge when dad takes him to week-nightly dinners in front of the tv with microwave food or mum cooks her fried chickenwings with fries again.

You can't expect the kid to tell his parents "no mum, I want salad and lentilburgers". If the parents aren't willing to learn, the children won't.

[Elliot Kane]

It is indeed a vicious circle, Kit. But the kind of adults who will insist absolutely on their right to ensure their child is dead of a coronary before thirty are also, sadly, those most likely to put their feet firmly down and insist that they have the RIGHT to do so and that's that!

These kind of 'soft wars' are not won overnight. They are generational struggles. We need to start training the children of today so they are less resistant when they are the parents of tomorrow.

Give a child confidence and a healthy self image and they will want to take care of themselves, because they will realise they are worth it. An adult with high self esteem will be responsible towards themselves and others.

These are the goals we need to aim at as a species - but they are long term things. My generation (And perhaps yours too) is already lost. The fight must be for generations yet to come.