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Post by Terrordar on May 6, 2005 5:34:26 GMT
Democracy doesn't work.
Here in Canada, we're going to get Captain-Right-Wing-Extreme-Evangalis-American as our Prime Minister, because the NDP and the Liberals don't see eye to eye.
The Federal NDP actually came to be, when a group of Liberals about 90 years ago, felt disenfranchised.
the NDP and Liberals still don't get along, despite having similar policies, though the NDP is further to the left...
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Post by Duncan on May 6, 2005 11:21:18 GMT
Given that the central issue of the campaign was the war, and that the opposition leader has since said he'd directly have gone into Iraq for regime change, which is just completely illegal, and is a man who fought a vicious, nasty campaign targeting the most vulnerable sector in the country, I'm relatively relieved that the election turned out the way it did; cut majority, 'bloody nose over Iraq, etc.' I may hate Blair, but goddam I just hate the Conservative Party most; the only credible leader they can have now is, bizarrely, Portillo.
I voted Lib Dem in a constituency taken by the SNP from Labour (boundary changes in Scotland had some bearing.) So, in effect, my vote (shared by 23% of the country,) had no bearing. Given that they were the only major party outright against the Iraq invasion, I consider it a simple choice.
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Post by Elliot Kane on May 6, 2005 13:46:59 GMT
...I could see Portillo, yeah. He might be the only Tory left with any real credibility. The problem with the Lib Dems is that they are the party who are most in favour of Europe, and would sell us down the river the whole way, so I couldn't vote for them. I also consider that Blair has to go for a lot more reasons than Iraq - though that is a main consideration. His policy of nepotism, corruption & sleaze at every level is destroying the country, along with his policy of beginning to do something then completely forgetting about it, which leads to a botched mess (Like the House Of Lords reform) and the knee-jerk legislation on any vaguely emotive issue. Also, Blair's policy of trying to lock suspects up indefinitely without trial for any reason he likes is so vilely wrong I have no words I would use on this message board to describe it... So, for me, the main issue was to get rid of Blair. If it hadn't been, I would have voted UKIP. As things stood, I voted for the party most likely to rid Britain of the loathesome B.Liar. The Conservatives actually won in my constituency, which is/was a marginal, so my vote made a difference. I thought the SNP would do better in Scotland, although I am heartened to see that there will be no less than three independent MPs in the new parliament. Certainly, the final result is not an unmitigated disaster by any means. Blair has a small enough majority that he'll actually have to listen to people for the first time, and both the Tories & the Lib Dems have made major gains. And I like independents They re a sign that the UK as a whole may just be waking up to the idea of voting for the best candidate available, not just party placemen. Regional/constituency variations may just bear that out. FAR too soon to realy tell on that one, though...
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Post by Shan on May 6, 2005 17:06:48 GMT
BJC, looks like Elliot survived the election. If he's the only sane one around here then that is scary. We'll just have to change that. ;D More chaos, more chaos, no more sane Elliot. ;D Shan
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Post by Duncan on May 6, 2005 22:32:33 GMT
I'm all for independents who are not the BNP.
I'm a little disappointed reading the numbers of seats for Kennedy's lot, but hopeful of at least three-party politics becoming more fruitful in the next decade or so.
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Post by Elliot Kane on May 6, 2005 22:35:08 GMT
Good caveat, Duncan I'll definitely agree with that one And yeah, I think it would be great to have a genuine three party system. They'll actually have to try, then, rather than rely on voters hating the current incumbent.
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Post by Terrordar on May 8, 2005 21:25:42 GMT
In Canada we have a 4 party system, and soon, they expect there might be a 5th major player on the parliment floor. Before we had 5 until the Reform Party (EXTREME RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVES) absorb- I mean "merged" with the Progressive Conservative Party (Wow, they represented their name, amazing). Now we have 4 major players in Parliment. The NDP (New Democratic Party)- They seem the most honest, and try to keep their word the most. But incompetence is pretty clear on their provincal parties. Lead by Jack Layton, pretty smart guy, preaches common sense. Hold about 20% of the Public. The Liberal Party of Canada- Well, these guys have ruled Canada for years. Some claim they've ruined it. Some claim they've made it great! The Liberal Party follow Clinton's "Third Way" policy, of being conservative and Socialist at the same time. They tend to be more conservative now adays, but still protect things like Universal Health Care. Lead by Paul Martin. Formerly lead by some French bastard. The Frenchmen was scandal ridden, and has caused scandal to follow the government, which is why the conservatives are attacking the Liberals now, who are sadly, more cleaned up. They currently hold about 30% of the populations happiness. And of course, where would we be without the Bloc' Quebec! The derranged French Seperatists. Who are sadly, prejudice against other French people who aren't from Quebec! They actually preach common sense, and sadly, I like their leader. Gilles Duceppe. He is the only leader, I actually believe in, in all of Parliment, and sadly, he wants to leave the god damn country! He's socially to the left, and for organized labour, NON-CORRUPT ORGANIZED LABOUR. They Bloc have 66% of Quebec's vote. Which is about... 22% of the vote. Now, onto the Reform Party- I mean the Torries These are a bunch of "Cultural Conservatives" (rednecks), and extremists. They are for privatizing just about everything, jumping the military budget through the roof, whoring the nation's resources away to the US for next to nothing, and "Free Trade". They are lead by a sexist, religious extremist named Stephan Harper. I hate Mr. Harper, as he staged a coup in his own party to take power, and when the Reform Party and REAL Torries merged, he kicked all the moderates (who outnumbered the extremists) out of the party. His former right hand man was Randy White, the man who actually is the parlimentarians from the city I'm in. Mr. White cost Mr. Harper the election, because people found out, that the party is run by crazy extremists like him. Mr. White was removed from Mr. Harper's staff when Mr. Harper vowed to "remove the extremism from his party", please note, only Mr. White left his little closed circle of Neoconservatives. And despite EXTREME SCANDAL, most of Canada, still doesn't want the Conservative Party. They have 28% of the vote, and it may actually go down. Also, their man on the CBC who represents the party, is a self rightous bastard. At least the NDP< Bloc, and Liberal reps on the network can admit when their party has been wrong. The Conservative guy would say Stephan Harper raping small children for a photo shoot, is a way of Mr. Harper expressing his love for children. There, that is the destrction of Canada's Political Mess. The up and coming Party is the Green Party. They grow more popular every year. THey are conservatives who are for the Enviroment (that is an oxymoron right there). I don't know why they are more popular- Oh wait, they want to legalized 3/4 of the Drugs in Canada *rolls eyes*
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Post by Terrordar on May 8, 2005 21:32:02 GMT
Oh, and on one note.
3 of Canada's 4 major parties, are traditionally left wing.
If you add all 3 parties together, 72% of the country is at least *somewhat* left wing.
Meaning, if the conservatives win, it will be an extreme minority ruling over a nation that does not support their ideological point of view.
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Post by Duncan on May 8, 2005 21:36:34 GMT
I don't think this an uncommon thing.
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Post by Terrordar on May 8, 2005 21:41:42 GMT
Yea, the Conservatives only get seats in Parliment because the NDP and the Liberals are pitted against eachother.
Its sad really...
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Post by Elliot Kane on May 8, 2005 22:12:23 GMT
Minority govt is pretty normal, and throughout the West, I'd say there is a very strong trend towards Socialism over Conservatism.
Personally, I think both 'wings' have the wrong idea. You cannot have 'rights' without concommitant responsibilities. That should be obvious even to a child. Similarly, you cannot take away people's rights just because you dissapprove of what they do.
The attempt to dictate every aspect of people's lives is a common flaw of right and left alike, of course. They just use different methods.
Conservatism tends to improve the economy at the cost of personal freedom, while Socialism tends to destroy the economy and create greater personal freedom. Obviously, neither approach is at all realistic in the long term.
Balance must be found. But before that, we need to find some intelligent politicians, which is virtually impossible in a democracy because of the candidate selection system, which weeds out anyone who might come up with any genuinely new ideas in case they rock the boat.
All very fascinating...
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Post by Terrordar on May 8, 2005 23:24:37 GMT
Well said.
The only people I think are reasonably responsible are the Federal NDP, and they are also complete pansies, and somewhat unrealistic, lol.
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Post by Elliot Kane on May 9, 2005 1:04:23 GMT
Ah, delusional politicians. How rare ;D
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Post by Terrordar on May 9, 2005 1:06:37 GMT
Amazingly, they are the onyl ones trying to make the minority government work, and have stayed truest to their voters.
They managed to stop a corperate tax-cut in the budget, which really pissed off the insane Fascis- I mean Conservatives.
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