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Post by Venom65437 on Nov 17, 2006 19:36:21 GMT
Well everyone gets along fine on these boards, sorry if you feel otherwise.
The only reason this has gotten the response it has is because Tsel has done this at LEAST two other times I can think of, and when you make a message with cryptic clues, people want to know what's going on.
It isn't like he said he was just moving on, or felt this wasn't a good place for him. He accused someone of breaking pro-boards rules but didn't have the balls to say who it was. Instead he just accused and ran off.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 17, 2006 19:44:58 GMT
Bad Wolf...
I am very curious as to how you KNOW that Tsel explaining would have made things worse. Wouldn't you say it's a bit hard to understand something when it has not been explained at all?
I am sure Tsel has his reasons, but his methods do leave something to be desired, wouldn't you agree?
He says that leaving is a matter of honour, which seems to imply that someone else has been dishonourable, yet he will not name the person or persons he is accusing nor the thing of which they are accused.
If this is all just a misunderstanding, it makes it a lot harder to clear up, and if there is a genuine charge to answer it should surely BE answered for the good of the board as a whole.
If he is accusing me of dishonourable conduct, as is one of many possible ways that might be read, I should like to know exactly how and why he feels that way, and I'm sure all the other possible people his post might be aimed at feel the same.
Nor do I blame anyone here who is doing the exact same thing as Tsel - defending a friend or friends whom they feel might be under attack.
I have no intention of closing this thread, as I believe this is a legitimate topic to be discussed.
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Post by Venom65437 on Nov 17, 2006 19:48:56 GMT
It should also be noted that it's never been E's style to lock a thread unless it gets completely out of control. And since Tsel made a public statement like this, then we can react the way we choose too.
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Post by Bad Wolf on Nov 17, 2006 20:20:37 GMT
Lets say you were the problem Elliot and he speaks out against you. Lets say he has proof that you’re the devil himself or as close as you can get on a proboard. What would happen then? There is three more than likely outcomes.
1) Everyone cries out in outrage demanding your head and you shut the boards down. You make the main page a form letter saying everyone didn’t understand you. Then poof things are done no more boards.
2) Things aren’t that clear and people start taking sides flaming the other side saying they don’t understand. Chaos reigns (pardon the pun) as the boards go in to disarray.
3) No one believes Tsel and the thread turns in to a bunch of nasty snarky comments that really don’t help anything. The boards stop being fun and people start to leave.
These options have all happen on boards I been to over the years and have happen more than once they are not just clever what ifs.
Would it been nice to know who the bad guy was in this and who was right? Yes. But since that seem like it is unlikely to happen then it best to let it rest.
No one is laying blame at anyone’s door currently posting on this thread right now. If you feel you need to defend yourself maybe your looking to hard at it.
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Nov 17, 2006 20:31:00 GMT
What makes you say that ?
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 17, 2006 20:40:00 GMT
Actually, Bad Wolf, if I feel I have to resign as Admin for the good of the forum, I hand over to Steve and step down. That's not a problem What is very bad for message boards is uncertainty. Right now, no-one knows who is even being accused or why. It could be anyone. It could even be ProBoards that Tsel has a problem with from the wording. Nor will I allow this thread or any other to degenerate into an argument, let alone the kind of flame wars you are talking about. I trust my boardies to handle issues in a mature & responsible fashion, and so far I have only been disappointed once or twice - which is pretty good for a year & a half I believe in debate, not argument, and I also like to be as open and honest with my boardies as possible with regards to the forum, which is why you will find many posts here explaining my decisions and telling everyone what I am doing. Ultimately though, I believe that if everything goes well with the forum it is down to all of you; if anything goes wrong it is down to me. This is the price and the ultimate responsibility for being the Admin - everything that happens here that is bad lands on my desk, and stays there. What you seem to perceive as defensiveness by me in this thread is a simple desire to get to the truth, because I bear the ultimate responsibility for anything that goes wrong. That also is a matter of honour.
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Post by Venom65437 on Nov 17, 2006 20:44:14 GMT
E's desk... we've gone CORPORTATE now!
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Post by hector on Nov 18, 2006 1:38:44 GMT
I think attacking someone who not here to defend himself shows a bit more cowardice than walking away from a place that you feel is unfair. No, it doesn't. I stand by what I said. I said it publicly, not behind anyone's back. I didn't made any unfounded assumptions with nothing to back me up. And you know what backs me up? This board. If you had maybe spent some more time around here before jumping in all judgemental you would have seen that no here is treated unfairly. In fact, some times people even go out of their ways to treat some fairly, even when they don't deserve it. So, on one hand, we have people like Elliot, Steve, Shan, Jangnutt and host of others who have been nothing but kind and polite and welcoming to everyone here. On the other we have someone who has done something similar in the past, and just like this time, he left people wondering what the heck happened. All of them. This isn't a big board with hundreds of forums and thousands of members. I doubt anything happens without the knowledge of those four I mentioned above. And if it does, well, I can't be the only wondering if it happened at all. I don't need to take a good look at myself. I know exactly what I have said and done. I stood up for those I care. Without the need to run away.
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Post by peterh on Nov 18, 2006 2:41:08 GMT
I agree with Hector here. That said, the Cascade is an open place and everyone is entitled to their opinion. A discussion is always welcome
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Misty
Apprentice
Posts: 156
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Post by Misty on Nov 18, 2006 9:54:39 GMT
Well I know no ones want my two cent on the matter but I don’t think it’s good manners or nice to just start ripping apart a person that who till a few days ago was suppose to be someone you thought as friend or least on good terms with just because he felt the need to bow out. If you have respect for Tsel at all or were friends you wouldn’t just start ripping him apart the moment he leaves it just not right.
Also attacking him makes it seem like maybe he had a point for the whole need to scream up and down that it can’t be true make it seem like you have something to hide as does attacking him. Simple saying you don’t see it that way and sorry to see him go would have been more respectful rather then turning it into a debate or a thread attacking a person no longer here to defend themselves is just bad form.
I would also like to say despite what many think Elliot is human. Since he is human there has to be a bit of biasness or favoritism in him for it just human nature. I would like to believe he tries to treat everyone equal and fair but him being human and all he slips now and again. To say it any other way would be saying he was a saint or god and I am not ready to build a church to him or give my life over to Elliot Kane.
I know no one is going to stop and this thread wont be lock for some reason Elliot thinks locking threads a sign of weakness or something. I would like it if people were a bit more respectful instead of beating a dead corpse but I wont hold my breath.
Goodbye, Tsel. I didn’t know you at all but I am sorry to see you go. I wish you well in all your future endeavors.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 18, 2006 13:49:43 GMT
This is very true, and bears repeating.
When I do slip up, I need you guys to tell me. Steve's usually very good at it, but he's only human, too.
An error I do not hear about, I cannot correct.
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Post by Venom65437 on Nov 18, 2006 16:51:18 GMT
You want us to list ALL your faults, E? Oh man, where to start....
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Post by hector on Nov 19, 2006 2:19:48 GMT
Since I don't see anyone saying Elliot was perfect in the first place, I don't see the need to brought it up. But anyway, of course he isn't. I mean, just a few days ago he refered to a certain comic book artist as 'immensely talented', that alone says that something must be wrong with him. Of course he makes mistakes. We all do, but in order to make a mistake a choice must be presented in a particular situation. And that particular situation is what I don't think it really happened.
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Post by philster on Nov 19, 2006 8:55:41 GMT
Whatever happened, it was probably tough to describe and explain, so Tsel probably didn't feel like being in the mood to explain.
Of course, that he leaves without wanting us to understand fully what went on and making us all feel like Chaos Cascade was a bad place makes me feel that he didn't really consider any of us here as friends... I don't give a damn why he left, and I don't care if he comes back.
I'm with Hector here.
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Post by Venom65437 on Nov 19, 2006 9:26:42 GMT
Me, Phil, and Hector....
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Post by winlok on Nov 19, 2006 18:47:53 GMT
Here's something to chew on. This is not insinuation of any type. It is fact, plain and simple. You have always treated me good, and hopefully I have responded the same. Besides you like the nik "Elly", and how can I hate anyone that likes that. I agree with you that continueing to discuss it, only makes us go around in circles and that benifits no one. So explain to me if possible why you have posted three times after your orginal post when you said that. Well I know no ones want my two cent on the matter but I don’t think it’s good manners or nice to just start ripping apart a person that who till a few days ago was suppose to be someone you thought as friend or least on good terms with just because he felt the need to bow out. If you have respect for Tsel at all or were friends you wouldn’t just start ripping him apart the moment he leaves it just not right. Also attacking him makes it seem like maybe he had a point for the whole need to scream up and down that it can’t be true make it seem like you have something to hide as does attacking him. Simple saying you don’t see it that way and sorry to see him go would have been more respectful rather then turning it into a debate or a thread attacking a person no longer here to defend themselves is just bad form. I would also like to say despite what many think Elliot is human. Since he is human there has to be a bit of biasness or favoritism in him for it just human nature. I would like to believe he tries to treat everyone equal and fair but him being human and all he slips now and again. To say it any other way would be saying he was a saint or god and I am not ready to build a church to him or give my life over to Elliot Kane. I know no one is going to stop and this thread wont be lock for some reason Elliot thinks locking threads a sign of weakness or something. I would like it if people were a bit more respectful instead of beating a dead corpse but I wont hold my breath. Goodbye, Tsel. I didn’t know you at all but I am sorry to see you go. I wish you well in all your future endeavors. I totally agree with Misty. People are beating Tsel left and right like a rented mule. Let sleeping dogs lie, and good luck to Tsel. It's been 5 days don't you think if he was going to respond he would. <--- for Misty, just don't tell Shan I'm a player?
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 19, 2006 18:53:26 GMT
Um... Because I'm a total hypocrite? ;D (And I hate being called 'Elly'... )
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Post by Alrik on Nov 19, 2006 19:22:49 GMT
I recently heard a saying, said to be from Dakota indians :
"If you discover that you're riding a dead horse, then you'd better unmount."
I vote for closing this thread here, because we are moving in circles, and the horse already IS dead. There is no way whatsoever to move forward in this discussion unless Tsel himsel would tell me, and I believe that his honour wouldn't allow this for some time now.
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Post by hector on Nov 20, 2006 0:34:22 GMT
Closing the thread?
That's totally Elly's call.
(God, I'll probably get years out of that one)
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Post by Venom65437 on Nov 20, 2006 0:39:19 GMT
I do like Elly....
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