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Post by cleglaw on Dec 20, 2006 22:22:18 GMT
I would like to get the opinions of the soccer fans here regarding the claims made about the sport by my brother-in-law. He contends that money drives the sport and that money is the reason poorer nations (Uruguay)don't win the World Cup or International championships. His arguments go like this:
The best Uruguayan players get paid better by teams in other countries -- primarily in Europe. As a result Uruguay is at a disadvantage. Even when Uruguayans playing abroad for foreign teams play for Uruguay in the World Cup, they hold back because
1. They don't want to get injured and hurt their careers abroad.
2. They don't want to embarrass or defeat the European countries that employ them during the regular season as that would also hurt their careers.
In the annual international competitions countries with the most money get the best rankings. As an example he cites Chile which he says is highly ranked, but which has always had a lousy team.
Now, do his arguments have merit or are they just sour grapes? I'll be seeing him over the holidays and would like to know how to respond to him. I don't know very much about professional soccer myself.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 20, 2006 22:36:36 GMT
They are sour grapes. By far the most successful team in international football is Brazil, who has won the World Cup so many times they might award them the thing permanently. Brazil as a nation is dirt poor, and many of their best players play in Europe.
Argentina is also highly successful, and again dirt poor with most of their best players in Europe.
The world ranking system is based on results of matches played, including friendlies. So teams who always arrange friendlies with lesser teams will have high rankings regardless of actual ability.
Spain has what is probably the best domestic league in the world; Spain and England have the most highly paid players in the world. I don't think Spain has ever won anything, and England hasn't won anything since 1966 when we won the WC for the one and only time.
A great performance by a player at the WC will actually enhance his reputation worldwide, making him far more valuable to his club - so you can bet all players play their best for their country. Their future standing among their peers and their future wages depend on it, as a player is as valuable as everyone believes his skills to be.
Football is a passionate game. There are plenty of players who can and have played through the pain of serious injury so as not to let their team down. And the WC is the absolute pinnacle of the game, It is, bar none, the single most popular sporting event in the world, and the final is regularly watched by over a billion people around the globe.
Uruguay do not win for the same reason England have failed to win for so long - when it really comes down to it, they are simply not good enough.
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Post by cleglaw on Dec 20, 2006 23:24:09 GMT
That's exactly the kind of opinions I am looking for. Thanks; I will tell him and see what he has to say. Any other opinions out there?
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Post by cleglaw on Dec 21, 2006 3:38:10 GMT
I spoke to my brother in law and relayed your comments to him. I couldn't follow everything he said as my Spanish is not quite good enough, but he did make the following remarks in support of his position.
Diego Armando Maradona is an excellent soccer player from Argentina. He was responsible for eliminating Italy in the 1990 World Cup. Because he played professionally for Italy at the time, his name was smeared by publicizing his problems with cocaine.
Polilla DaSilva was an Uruguayan who played for England. He was a top notch player. However, he intentionally did not make the cut for the Uruguayan World Cup team.
If Uruguay is simply not good enough to win, then why are their players recruited to play in Europe?
Since Brazil and Argentina are both much larger than Uruguay, even with many of their top players going to Europe they can weather the talent drain. Because Uruguay has a smaller population they when their top players leave for Europe they are hard to replace. Thus Brazil does better. But if it weren't for the money issue Uruguay wouldn't lose their best players and would have a higher standing.
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Post by Venom65437 on Dec 21, 2006 3:43:23 GMT
I don't know much about soccer, but doesn't, for example, all of Brazil's best players play in Europe for money, but when it comes time for the World Cup they play for Brazil? I know over here in America a lot of Hispanic people play baseball here, but in World competition they play for their home nation.
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Post by cleglaw on Dec 21, 2006 3:55:31 GMT
I don't know much about soccer, but doesn't, for example, all of Brazil's best players play in Europe for money, but when it comes time for the World Cup they play for Brazil? I know over here in America a lot of Hispanic people play baseball here, but in World competition they play for their home nation. I am really not sure about that although I am sure my brother in law could tell you. The issue is not only the World Cup, however, but also the annual international competition between clubs. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 21, 2006 6:46:49 GMT
I don't know much about soccer, but doesn't, for example, all of Brazil's best players play in Europe for money, but when it comes time for the World Cup they play for Brazil? I know over here in America a lot of Hispanic people play baseball here, but in World competition they play for their home nation. That's exactly right. Every player plays for his country of origin (Or the country of his parents' or grandparents' origin, if he prefers), not the country his club is in. *** Cleg... Europe takes in loads of players from all over the world because it has the richest leagues. That includes a ton of players from Africa and a good few from the Far East as well as from South America. It also includes all the best US players, most of whom play in England. No African or Far Eastern team has ever won the WC. You don't have to be a world class player to play in Europe. Not even in Spain and England which are the two top leagues (Mainly because they are the richest). You just have to be good enough to attract the attentions of a manager who needs someone with playing experience in your position. Even in the top leagues, not every club is all that amazing. If every Uruguayan player was playing for the really top clubs then yes, they should be able to win the WC. In theory. But they don't. Ask your BIL how many Uruguayans play regularly in the first team at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, Manchester United, Bayern Munich or one of the Milan sides. I might have forgotten a couple, but those are usually the best teams in Europe right now. I doubt he'll name many. Some of the best players in the world come from countries who will never even qualify for the World Cup, let alone stand any chance of winning it. It doesn't matter if you have two or three really good players - to win the WC you need at least one for every position, hopefully a few spares as well, and the ability to work as a team. And luck, quite frankly. It's a gruelling contest, and if you pick up a few too many injuries to your squad - especially to your key players - or get a really bad draw where every other team is a nightmare and you have to work your socks off... Well, let's say it'll take a miracle for a team going through all that to make the final. Oh yes, one last thing: you also need the mentality; the will to win. This is why Spain never gets anywhere. They usually have a great team, but the closer they get to the final the more they are paralysed by the pressure and the worse their football becomes. By the time they go out, as they inevitably do, most schoolboy teams could tear them apart. By contrast, even if Germany are fielding a poor team they will go far because every player they field will work their heart out to win every game. Funnily enough, they've won it a few times because of that. I've seen Uruguay play, and they are a pretty good team, but they are far from being a great team. They certainly aren't good enough to win the WC. One day they might be, who knows? But not now. Oh yeah - and Maradona was a dirty cheat. I have no sympathy or respect for him at all. He was one of the most talented players the game has ever produced, and he ruined it all by cheating. |
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Post by ss on Dec 22, 2006 1:08:48 GMT
I am not an authority on Soccer (football), but it is evident to everyone that money always has a bearing on organized sports of any kind... That notwithstanding, I agree with EK here...his post could describe the American football or basketball system as well.. If you watch the trades and buying of players, it is always to try to win the Superbowl or NBA Championship... BUT -- a lot of times a "good" team will beat a "great" team because of the will to win, the leadership, and comraderie of the team...and never forget, it just might be "hype" on who really is a "great" team...the end result shows just who is by putting goals in the net... ;D However, it sounds like the BIL is trying to excuse the fact that Uruaguay just seems to be a regular team. They may field a team next time that sweeps everyone...who knows...  |
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Post by Venom65437 on Dec 22, 2006 5:20:57 GMT
Besides, games aren't played on paper. Upsets happen. That's why they play the game!
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 22, 2006 6:01:27 GMT
Darn straight, V. On paper, England have one of the best teams in the world, and should do far better than they have done in recent years. On the pitch for various reasons they have disappointed time and again.
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tragic
Chaosite
Happiness is a cigar called hamlet
Posts: 627
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Post by tragic on Dec 25, 2006 13:15:59 GMT
EK is right.
You also need not just good players but the ability to blend as a team.
Its is for this reason that in the 90's Holland never won aythng and yet they had a very talented squad.
Same with England/Spain in this world cup.
You also have to remember that in most cases the favourites never wins the world cup and that luck does play an important part(and the referee/linesmen in some cases!)
While Europe has the richest league...the leagues in S America are very attack minded and play is very fast and on the whole more exciting to watch.
Which explains why they score more but are not known for their defensive talents. If you want to see a good defence watch Italy play.
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