The US Tea Party Movement

[Elliot Kane]

I didn't have the faintest idea who they were until very recently, but they seem to be gaining a lot of grass roots support across America.

Time has a lot of details.

Gotta say, I'm all for any movement that believes in small govt!

[Ubereil]

Even when they want a goverment so small that it can't do any of the things you feel a goverment should do?

Übereil

[Elliot Kane]

I said 'small govt' not 'no govt', Ube. there IS a difference

[Ubereil]

Libertarians wants a goverment. That goverment should consist of a police force and a juridical branch. Would such a goverment be able to do everything you want to do?

Übereil

[Terrordar]

Yes! Less taxes! Smaller Government!... but more religion! And no Blacks allowed!... Or Jews!... or Mexicans!

The only government division left over should be the one that shoots the minorities! Praise White Jesus!

[Elliot Kane]

Ube - who's talking about Libertarians? Are they even mentioned in the article? I didn't see them...

***

Terror - LOL ;D

[Ubereil]

I'm not attacking the tea baggers, I'm challenging your statement that you're for any movement that believes in small govt. With that in mind, bringing up libertarians (which is The Movement That Believes In Small Goverment) is quite relevant, isn't it? A bit of a tangent, but I'm still reading the article so I can't say much about the actual movement.

Apart from the fact that I have a hard time taking anyone who's opposing Barrack Obama because he's dragging America down into socialism seriously, and that I've heard too much about the movement being based on just that for there to not be some substance behind it.

On the other hand, I wellcome any political movement (neo-nazis included) who can get the Dems and Repubs to stop acting like a bunch of 12-year olds.

Übereil

[Elliot Kane]

OK, I'm for most movements that want small government!

And I don't welcome Neo-Nazis OR Neo- Communists for any reason whatsoever. Both ideologies have screwed up enough of the world already, thanks.

[Ubereil]

Well, if they got the Dems and Reps to stop acting like a bunch of 12-year olds they wouldn't be able to get any kind of actual influence anyway so I'd say it was a fair trade.

I do however think it's quite refreshing that the fringe populist movement that pops up when the established politicians aren't doing their job properly isn't fashist and/or racist. Since that's usually the case here in Europe (and the present time is no exeption).

Übereil

[Terrordar]

Communism and Nazism/Fascism will return in some form when times are desperate, this is inevitable, whether you welcome it or not Elliot

[Elliot Kane]

I know, Terror. History guarantees that if there's one thing in life that's certain it's that people never learn from history!

***

Ube - it's a lovely theory. Unfortunately, sometimes the political classes are too far gone to even realise what's happening until it's too late. That's happened in too many places to count throughout history.

[Ubereil]

We (the pepole) do seem to have learnt to handle it a little better with time though. When the righties (and commies are usually so left they become righties) start to gain power we see it as a warning and react. Maybe it's not a reaction so strong that the country gets back to well-running but at least a reaction strong enough to remove/reduce the problems the righties are trying to exploint to get back into power.

And that's ultimately what I think the Tea Baggers is about. USA as a society isn't working very well at the moment, and the political machine isn't doing an awful lot to repair it. This results in populist rage, just like it's done here in Europe (IIRC BNP got 20 % in the EU election). If we're in Europe, what happens next is usually that some kind of political movement finds a scapegoat (the weak/immigrants are holding us down and it's their fault that we are where we are!!!) and the populist ragers embraces them since they give them something to channel their rage at. Once the establishment gets their act together and get the economy back on rails the source of the rage goes away and so the movement that was so popular all of a sudden goes back to being ignored.

At the moment there is a lot of populist rage in the USA. And for good reason, you can't say otherwise. The whole political process is really showing it's structural flaws at the moment. It's so bad that I acually do believe that a comunist/fashist uprise would do more good than bad. Because in all their stupidity I beleve that the Dems and the Reps are at least smart enough to realize how bad it would be if those guys got into power and that would eventually make them streamline their own party/politics. And America would be stronger for it.

But, the movement that occured which pepole could use to channel their rage was neither communist nor fashist (and I'm both glad and positivly suprised). Instead it was traditionalisticly libertarian: go back to what the founding fathers intended and make goverment smaller. It still, in a way, works the same way as the fashist uprisings in Europe. Find who's to blame for this whole mess (for the Tea Baggers it's not immigrants though, it's the goverment), rage at said scapegoat and then advocate getting rid of said scapegoat (in this case: make goverment much smaller).

Now, this movement acually has a few things going for it (unlike Fashist movements in Europe. The one and only thing they've got going for them is that they're a very clear sign that society isn't working at the moment). For instance, you can't say they've put the blame in the wrong place. If the goverment hadn't been so incompetent we probably wouldn't be where we're at at the moment. Their general answer is still pretty unimaginative and simplistic (get rid of less goverment!). But they do have ideas. They're not all bad ideas either, especially the ones that aren't focused on the size of the govement but rather the transparency and accountability of the goverment. Their ideas about balanced budgets and simplified tax codes aren't bad either, especially if you consider the spirit of the suggestions rather than what the suggestions are acually saying (basing the maximum length of the tax code on the length of the original constitution is... well... yeah... ;D).

All in all, for a populist rage movement this movement is pretty alright. If they got in power they'd still wreck the country but they're never going to get in power anyway. And I believe the political system in America needs something to shake it up so that the politicians can wake up and get back to work, and if the Tea Baggers can do that then they've done well.

Übereil