|
|
Post by hector on Jun 25, 2006 14:27:22 GMT
My love/hate relationship with this increasingly poorly written title continues. Last few issues have been terrible, and the first 'season' left me with a sour taste due to its poor plotting, ridiculous concepts and lackluster executions. But I'll be damned if this issue didn't showcased the kind of X-Men stories Claremont and Byrne did best. The X-Men defeated by cunning and strenght and against impossible odds. Whedon just knows which fanboy buttons shamelessly push as that last page clearly shows. My only grip with this issue is that despite having an amazing ability to write each character extremely well, BENDIS! still writes a better Wolverine.  Just when I tought I was out. Damn. |
|
|
|
Post by Venom65437 on Jun 25, 2006 17:41:55 GMT
I'd have to say I pretty much agree with you. I thought this issue was better than the past few, but it just doesn't get me anywhere near as hot n' bothered as some other people.
|
|
Misty
Apprentice
Posts: 156
|
Post by Misty on Jun 25, 2006 21:03:59 GMT
One of my favorite parts was Wolverine ‘transformation’ I wish it would stick. Then again I am not a big Wolverine fan and think he should die horrible and never come back. I just don’t see the attraction of a short hairy angry man that looks like he smells… |
|
|
|
Post by hector on Jun 26, 2006 3:31:23 GMT
I'd have to say I pretty much agree with you. I thought this issue was better than the past few, but it just doesn't get me anywhere near as hot n' bothered as some other people. I think it's because it's 'safe'. For all its faults, and it had many, Morrison's NXM wasn't safe, it was challenging and at its best, gripping and tought-provoking. AXM is the X-Men we all know. Also, the themes, plotting and ideas may be piss poor, but Whedon has a very good grip on the characters. Even stellar. With the notable exception of Wolverine. |
|
|
|
Post by Venom65437 on Jun 26, 2006 4:22:06 GMT
Yea, I really thought the "Danger" arc was crap.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 26, 2006 20:01:26 GMT
I didn't like 'Danger' much myself, but I've loved the rest so far. Whedon's demoition of Scott was one of the best single issues of anything I've read this year. This issue wasn't as good - but still very good, IMO  |
|
|
|
Post by Gray Lensman on Jun 27, 2006 1:38:23 GMT
All in all, I liked this issue. It's good solid set-up. I admit, it's good to see the X-Men get thrashed badly for once. The Hellfire Club needed to be re-established as a genuine threat, when they've been a joke for too many years. This issue is a step in the right direction in that respect. It's good to see the X-Men have to recover from a major loss... and those have been rare in recent years. I liked Shaw vs. Colossus. Peter's needed some focus for a long while now, and he got it here, finally. Peter should have known better than to hit Shaw... but it's been years since they last fought and Peter isn't the brightest guy in the mansion. Danger was a really weak arc, and collapsed entirely around the end. Torn looks like it'll end up being better so far. I'm curious to see where it's all headed. |
|
|
|
Post by Sir Ped of Ro on Jun 28, 2006 15:45:41 GMT
I liked Shaw vs. Colossus. Peter's needed some focus for a long while now, and he got it here, finally. Peter should have known better than to hit Shaw... but it's been years since they last fought and Peter isn't the brightest guy in the mansion.
Peter isn't a Richard Reed or Tony Stark, but he's far more inteligent/intuitive than the writer show on this rather flawed/off character scene. He fought several times Shaw and was able to overcome Shaw's hability/power with indirect combat behaviour. I guess the only thing this show us is how ignorant the writer is when developping some characters...  regards
|
|
|
|
Post by Gray Lensman on Jun 28, 2006 16:32:22 GMT
We haven't seen that Peter Rasputin in 20+ years, Pedro, sadly. It's a shame, too.
It's just not inconceivable to me that he'd be off his form, under the circumstances. Peter's been dead for a while, and he clearly hasn't had his mind on training. Against an opponent he hasn't tackled in years, and who hasn't amounted to much in the time since... I can believe he'd have gotten sloppy.
That said, if it had been anyone else, or Peter had been in the form he was 20 years ago... I would have had problems with this. As it is... it's questionable, but not completely implausible.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sir Ped of Ro on Jun 28, 2006 19:39:11 GMT
Steve Those could be some good points if not: 1- Peter had several years of training and combat experience with the x-men, that kind of experience stays with the character. 2- 20 years it's almost the age of the fella, lol (ok he must be a little over 30 now). it isn't just because this kind of scene was *ahem* copied *coff coff* from what happened 25 years ago, that the character didn't had any more combat situationsd after it. Until the legacy virus Peter was always on a front line, learning with some of the best (wolvie) and dvelopping (i think) some kind of instinct/deep experience. 3- I could accept that he would give Shaw a punch or two, bursting out the rage/Revolt, but right after that the instinct/past experience should kick in and force him to think and act accordingly. Even if his power is pure strenght doesn't mean he doesn't have an intellect...remember he has the soul of an artist, so there's some kind (at worst) of intelectual activity. Again, he isn't a Reed or Stark, but i don't think he's stupid. 4- He has been "dead"/out of combat experience, in marvel time i would guess that could be something like 1 or 2 years or something...don't think it's enough to make him a "primitive" rampage machine, which even at his debut he never was (solely), forcing him to forget something like 10 to 15 years of itnense combate training/experience.  There's a deep lack of characterization imho...in this kind of scene he isn't a character but a uni dimensional cardboard. regards ps- and i assure you colossus isn't my fav. character, just think this kind of scane could be way much better handle with...
|
|
|
|
Post by Gray Lensman on Jun 28, 2006 19:55:38 GMT
That's fair enough, Pedro. He's not my favorite X-Man either, really. Honestly, I don't think anyone's had a great handle on Colossus since early Claremont. I think most writers tend to relegate Peter in the role of the dumb brute. Perhaps because they don't know what more to do with him, I don't know. It's rare when anyone gives Colossus any real focus or any proper depth at all. Whedon hasn't been much better with Peter, overall. There's been a moment or two, but generally either he's been slugging people or shoved in the role of Kitty's love interest. Which, to my mind, are both the wrong reasons to bring him back in the first place. As much as I love Kitty, the whole series currently revolves around her. I think there needs to be a more balanced team focus right now. I would love to see the return of a proper Colossus. I think the X-writers have completely lost sight of who he was over the years. But then, I'd like to see all the X-Men be handled properly again. Currently, the franchise overall is still a mess. I guess we'll see how it all turns out. |
|
|
|
Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 28, 2006 20:04:42 GMT
They brought back the wrong Rasputin is what...
|
|
|
|
Post by Gray Lensman on Jun 28, 2006 20:07:26 GMT
Yeah, I won't argue with you there. I'd much rather have Illyana back than Peter any day. |
|
|
|
Post by hector on Jun 29, 2006 0:23:54 GMT
It's not as if Shaw is some oscure character who has only fought the X-Men once or twice. it really doesn't matter Peter has been dead for months or years has passed since their last fight, it is unlikely for someone to forgot the kind of powers he has.
But that's par for the course for the title. It's poorly written. You just have to ride the nostalgia to enjoy it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 29, 2006 2:28:36 GMT
That many powerful telepaths in the enemy team and no-one thinks Piotr might have had his memories played with? I sure do...
|
|
|
|
Post by hector on Jun 29, 2006 6:21:00 GMT
Yes, it's possible. But unless it's especifically mentioned in the story, and given the title track record with logic, I doubt it. It sounds more like making excuses for bad writing. Y'know, like me pretending Superboy-Prime's intention of destroying Oa to restart the Big Bang was due to his unhinged mental state and not just because it didn't made sense. I just don't like Whedon nearly enough to make excuses for him like I do with Johns.  |
|
|
|
Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 29, 2006 6:43:11 GMT
ROFL! Granted it DOES need mentioning in story, too But - I like the story so far, so I'm prepared to overlook the bad bits as long as the good continues |
|
|
|
Post by Sir Ped of Ro on Jun 30, 2006 7:21:14 GMT
It's not as if Shaw is some oscure character who has only fought the X-Men once or twice. it really doesn't matter Peter has been dead for months or years has passed since their last fight, it is unlikely for someone to forgot the kind of powers he has. But that's par for the course for the title. It's poorly written. You just have to ride the nostalgia to enjoy it. Ditto...comee on, the hellfire club (after magneto) is one of the most important enemies of x-men, wich have an old track record with them. i just think there's several basic faws, that any invested writer should revise...but nowadays it seems that if you do something popular on the TV, you're more than good to write stories! never understood the "rock star" level that so many fanboys see on Whedon (bought/read the first dozen of comics, first half decent, second bad/boring). guess it's what we have from the house (lack) of ideas... regards |
|
|
|
Post by Sir Ped of Ro on Jun 30, 2006 7:24:20 GMT
That many powerful telepaths in the enemy team and no-one thinks Piotr might have had his memories played with? I sure do... nice point E. has there been a comic that focused on Peter's "death" and what he went trough and the possible "emocional/psychological" damage he may have got?! it could be a very interesting (vital) point to push the characters from cardboard to tri dimensional level, don't you think?! it seems to me that¨Peter only exists due to Kitty's presence regards |
|
|
|
Post by hector on Jun 30, 2006 7:41:44 GMT
I never understood the "rock star" level that so many fanboys see on Whedon (bought/read the first dozen of comics, first half decent, second bad/boring). guess it's what we have from the house (lack) of ideas... Maybe because they like his writing? Yes, it's not Watchmen, and Whedon may not be a great writer, but there are a few thing to like if you're willing to let go a few (OK, many) flaws. No, having a background writing TV shows doesn't guarantee quality comics. Nor does it guarantee bad ones. Also, I don't think Brian Michael Bendis was given a job because of his writing in other media, and that doesn't stop him from writing sh!t. Whether they come from movies, TV or whatever doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter. Jeph Loeb has written a few things in the past that I liked. Geoff Johns also comes from a Hollywood backgrund. Allan Heinberg was give Young Avengers because he writes The O.C. and I've enjoyed everything he was written so far. Just because they didn't start their careers writing comics mean that their work si good, nor should it be prejudged because of that fact. |
|
