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Post by hector on Oct 22, 2006 1:03:13 GMT
Okay. I just this second got the go-ahead from Nick Lowe to talk about
this. So here we go:
Sales on the singles are okay, if not great. Sales on the first collection
have apparently been terrific.
We were on such a roll with NEXTWAVE that I was actually into the
idea of doing a second year, which is highly unusual for me and
work-for-hire properties. So Marvel sat down and looked at the numbers,
as they wanted to do a second year too.
What they found was that, at our current sales levels, they could afford
for me to write it, but not for Stuart to draw it. Stuart, as a
Marvel-exclusive artist, commands a fee commensurate with his
astonishing talent. I'm WFH-exclusive too, but they just send me
whisky and loose women and I'm fine. So, basically, I could continue
to write NEXTWAVE, but we'd need to find another artist. This, to me,
was just wrong. I mean, Stuart would obviously be given a far better
job that had actual readers attached to it, but it still seemed a bit like
the numbers were conspiring to fire him for doing his job too well.
Everyone at Marvel pitched in to try and make it work, but the
numbers were just against us.
So NEXTWAVE #12 will be the final issue of the ongoing series.
(To clear up a common misconception: NEXTWAVE was always
pitched as an ongoing series. However, my original intent was to
do 12 and then pass it on to someone else. This got garbled,
somewhere down the chain of communication, and so the first
issue or two got solicited as "part xxx of 12".)
However. The numbers game changes when you posit things in
terms of limited series.
NEXTWAVE #12 will be the last issue of the ongoing series: but
there will be more NEXTWAVE to come, presented as a sequence
of limited series.
This was all worked out some months ago, so I had plenty of time
to work the final NEXTWAVE sequence into a conclusion of sorts.
#11 even features a twelve-page spread that you'll have to buy six
copies of the comic to assemble into its full splendour. Everyone
wishes I'd thought of that eight or nine months ago.
That was the news. Return to your duties.
-- W
--------
I'm truly sad to see this title go. Ellis is mostly hacking out his current work for Marvel but this title was something truly special.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 22, 2006 1:37:05 GMT
I hate Ellis' mistreatment of Elsa far too much to like this, and I can't say I will miss it.
Still, my sympathy goes to those of you who did like it.
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Post by Gray Lensman on Oct 22, 2006 1:52:02 GMT
There are Ellis comics that I miss. Nextwave will not be one of them. As a general rule, I dislike Ellis anywhere near established characters, as he tends to wreck them.
I feel bad for Nextwave fans for losing a book they enjoyed... but I have no sympathy for the comic itself.
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Post by Gay Titan on Oct 22, 2006 12:48:17 GMT
When the book debutted, I thought Marvel was stretching to put yet another comic out. I think they over-saturate the market. But yeah, for the few fans out there, I empathize with losing a book.
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Post by hector on Oct 22, 2006 14:14:48 GMT
I hate Ellis' mistreatment of Elsa far too much to like this, and I can't say I will miss it. She actually was the least "mistreated", by virtue of just...standing there and not doing nothing. Ellis prefered to go over Monica Rambeu and Machine Man. Also, the book was comedy and parody, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously, so the issue wasn't as big as in, say, All-Star Batman and Civil War, which so far had managed to mischaracterize every single character in their pagesThat is, if both are supposed to be taken seriously, which is something I still have doubts about. The kind of stupidity displayed in those two has to be on purpose. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 22, 2006 18:37:43 GMT
Hec...
ASB is not DCU, it's a whole other universe of its own - or this is my understanding of the All Star line, at least. 'Out of character' is as much an issue as in Marvel's Ultimate line.
As for Civil War... Well, Cap's in character... Stark has always been the first to discard his ethics in favour of 'practical' solutions... Spidey, I'll grant you, and the New Warriors were mischaracterised to an absurd extent. Who else? Not that CW is fantastic, mind...
***
I suppose the wider question, though - at least in terms of Marvel - is: does such a thing as 'In Character' even exist anymore? It sometimes seems like every new writer gets to ignore all prior characterisation if they want and just do their own thing.
Some, like Nicieza, actually try to portray the characters, while many do not.
Am I being unfair, or do you guys think this, too?
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Post by hector on Oct 23, 2006 0:54:21 GMT
Hec... ASB is not DCU, it's a whole other universe of its own - or this is my understanding of the All Star line, at least. It is supposed to be an 'iconic' representation of the characters not tied to any specific continuity. Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman falls perfectly in line with the Mort Weisenger/Jules Pffeifer interpretation of the character. The absurd, lunatic, rat-eating goddamned Batman is not an iconic representation of how Batman has been portrayed in almost 70 years of history. Not even close. It also has been called part of the Frank Miller Universe. Which again, is an incongruent portrayal with both Batman: Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. It also has little in common with the more terror inclined Batman in The Dark Knight Strikes Again. So, no. Not being part of continuity is not an excuse for All-Star Batman to be so stupid. Not the brash, impulsive and idiotic "you pampered punk" character currently appearing in Civil War. He is, however, perfectly in character with Ultimate Captain America, which I suspect Millar can't differentiate anymore. To point of being, well, stupid? No. Practical solutions that make sense and who has a chance to work. And even then, cloning a personal friend for use as a weapon, and releasing that weapon without means to control him is not something he would ever do. He may be pragmatic, but the character currently appearing in CW isn't pragmaric. It's braindead. Reed Richards. Sue Storm. The three pages Johnny Storm was concious before falling into a coma. Daredevil (or the one posing as him) And there are still 3 more issues to go. I'm sure Millar can top himself. Yes. Anything written by Ed Brubaker (Captain America, Uncanny X-Men, Daredevil) Dan Slott (She-Hulk, formerly The Thing) Peter David (Spider-Man, X-Factor) |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 23, 2006 1:51:50 GMT
Brubaker's Cap is so far out of character it's not even funny. He's writing USAgent. David & Slott I'll grant you, though.
All Star line - I never heard 'iconic' mentioned. I don't think any two different people will agree what it's supposed to be though, as DC have never made it clear.
Cap is definitely more in character in CW than he has been in his own title, of late.
Stark I do see as a natural extension of the way he's been going anyway, and he's the only one on his side showing any use of brains - he's just using villainous methods outright now. I think he is finally going over to the dark side is all.
The FF I'll say nothing on. My knowledge of them is pretty cursory. I never really saw Reed as 'people smart', but I could easily be wrong, there.
DD looked OK... What was wrong with him?
Truth is, I'm reading CW because it's the closest Cap's been to being in character in years, except for a brief stint in Cable/Deadpool where Nicieza got him exactly right. It's not a great series by any stretch.
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Post by hector on Oct 23, 2006 5:42:44 GMT
All Star line - I never heard 'iconic' mentioned. Says here, here, here, too. The Wikipedia also say it. In fact, practically every press realease about the All-Star line mention that. Not really, I think this paragraph sums it up: The idea behind the All-Star line isn’t to spin the characters into a new timeline, a new universe, or a new continuity, rather, the creators are telling stories set in a contemporary period that both builds on the histories of the respective characters, while remaining fresh and as timeless as possible. These are books that DC hopes, will pull people in who maybe haven’t read a Batman or Superman story in a while – if ever. These versions and stories, while not “dumbed down” at all, will bring to the page what’s pure about the character – the iconic characteristics.Nowhere there does it say radically different representations of the characters. Even if no one would agree exactly what fits that description, it's fairly easy to know what doesn't. And what doesn't fit it's the psycotic, lunatic, rat-eating goddamn Batman. Especially when it's pretty clear that All-Star Batman is more like an unused Sin City plot than an actual Batman story. I seriously, truly don't know how you can possibly say that. I doubt I'll ever agree with that but so far I can't even see it, so can you please expand a bit more? Brains? Where? When he used a clone of a very powerful superhuman and unleashed him without a sesnible mean to control him? Or when he's recruiting murderous psychopatic villains and somehow believe everything will turn out right? That's brains? He isn't. He's absorbed by his work to a fault. But even if he needs to be reminded his family always come first. The same for Sue. And that's just in the main mini. He's being even worse in the FF title. Does he really acted like you would expect DD (or actually, Iron Fist) would act? Like the 'cool' tough guy in the corner' He just needed a trenchcoat, a cigarrete and a french accent to be a 90's character. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 23, 2006 6:09:46 GMT
OK, I stand corrected on All Star. I obviously didn't read the blurb as well as I thought I did... Possibly Frank Miller interpreted it as 'Ultimate DC'.
On Cap - you think throwing people off trains without qualms and risking thousands of lives by landing a plane in the middle of Paris is in character for Cap? Clearly we have very, very different ideas of who Steve Rogers is. Unless Bru has changed his original take on Cap extremely radically, I can safely say he is absolutely writing USAgent, not Captain America.
CW Cap on the other hand is reluctantly forced to stand for his principles outside of the law, though he tries to avoid conflict with other heroes, police, etc. He is trying to do the right thing and fighting only when he must - and that's Cap exactly
If I were Iron Fist pretending to be DD in a room full of people who knew both of them, I'd be pretty quiet too, wouldn't you? That one is believable.
Stark - he's clearly taking 'my govt right or wrong' and doing anything and everything to support them. He's utterly manipulated the heroes who've taken his side (Hence 'brains') and the recruited villains are, IIRC, imbued with controlling nannites to make sure they don't misbehave. Stark is a guy who relies on high tech to do everything, and that includes the clones. He's also clearly planned all this out to a massive degree in advance, which takes quite some scheming. It may all go pear shaped on him, but the idea is there.
Of course, the pesence of clones in any comic story these days invites disaster due to the antecedents, but such is life ;D
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Post by hector on Oct 23, 2006 6:51:03 GMT
Possibly Frank Miller interpreted it as 'Ultimate DC'. Not that, either. Miller interpreted as being part of his own Universe. All-Star Batman is his "Year Two" No, I do believe we interpret the most recent volume of Captain America in different ways. I don't see him throwing murderous terrorists off a train as a terrible crime against his nature. Harder than the regular Cap who can't go three pages without a cornball speech? Yeah. But not unheroic. The complete opposite. He's heroic and decisive. Smart but compassionate. There is really not comprarission with the deluded USAgent. Who started the fight against Stark? Cap did. Fighting only when he must? He was itching for a fight. He wanted to kick Stark ass. Does that pettyness ("I'm not going down to a pampered punk like you") sounds like Captain America? Yes. The Ultimate one. Maybe in issues 1 and 2 Cap was relatively in character, which is still a record for Civil War. That's the problem. He wasn't quiet. he was drawing attention to himself in a way neither DD nor IF does and most certainly not under the circumstances. Who? When? Sides were drawn "just because" Pym is a member of his group because he's scummish that way, but the rest? The only place IM has been shown as a master manipulator was in ASM when he was tried to not get the law passed, which means he did a pretty poor job because it did. And also trying to make Peter side with him and revealing his identity, and again, he did a poor job and Peter had to be manipulated by May and MJ to do it. "Chipped" "tagged" "monitored" There is no mention of them being controlled. Just that when they start killing people there will be a perfect record of their actions. ;D [quote[He's also clearly planned all this out to a massive degree in advance, which takes quite some scheming. It may all go pear shaped on him, but the idea is there.[/quote] Even if all of it goes to hell?. Every single thing he has planned has gone wrong. Everything. And the one that hasn't (the villians) it's because the next issue hasn't been released yet. Leaving aside his scientific genius, he has shown a planning level of intelligence somewhere between a doorstop and George W. Bush. And we don't call Bush intelligent.  |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 23, 2006 7:22:32 GMT
I guess we're not gonna agree on Cap, so we may as well just agree to respect each other's opinions and move on  You're right about all Stark's plans getting well out of his control - but that's also in character, isn't it? Wasn't the whole Armour Wars thing caused by Stark trying to correct his own mess up - and messing up again in doing it? The 'pampered punk' line was OOC I agree, but the fight started the moment IM took down Cap's teleporters. That was a statement of intent right then & there which said the fight was coming one way or another. If Stark had genuinely been interested in talking, he would not have done that. Cap's response was smart. I guess I have no problem with Stark's portrayal in CW because it's pretty much how I see him myself. Not that I'm a fan, but still... With DD - I saw nothing that looked terribly in or out of character. He doesn't really do much that could be describedas characterisation, and nothing leaps off the page screaming 'this is not DD'. I'd consider him within bounds. The absolute worst portrayal so far was the New Warriors, who were nothing like they should be. |
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Post by hector on Dec 15, 2006 10:41:47 GMT
I'm sure Elliot wouldn't approve, but this was one of the best moments in comic book history:   I'm so going to miss Nextwave when it's cancelled. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 15, 2006 13:05:27 GMT
Who's the redhead? |
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Post by Alrik on Dec 15, 2006 20:06:16 GMT
"You have been getting insulted by Nextwave". LOL ;D
I wish they'd made more of this ! ;D
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Post by hector on Dec 16, 2006 6:59:10 GMT
Who's the redhead? Ah, you know who she is.  It isn't just a river. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 16, 2006 7:02:49 GMT
I know who this one is:  Does that count? ;D |
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Post by hector on Dec 16, 2006 16:40:13 GMT
Yeah. They both are the same character. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 16, 2006 16:44:40 GMT
Yeah. They both are the same character. I wonder... if anyone told Warren Ellis that, would he be more insulted, or would I? ;D (I must admit, though, taking the piss out of Millar did make me laugh... ;D) |
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Post by hector on Dec 16, 2006 16:48:56 GMT
Nextwave is the funniest comic I've ever read. I have spilled milk through my nose at least three or four times per issue. Even though I don't drink milk.
Sadly, someone spoiled that one for me. I'm sure I would have laughed harder had I not been expecting it.
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