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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 16, 2006 16:52:52 GMT
I'd probably be reading it myself if he hadn't picked on Elsa. I just can't get past the total waste of such a superb character. The rest are losers, but Elsa never got a decent chance.
You know what I've done with her, and I'd bet any half way decent writer could do the same or better,
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Post by hector on Dec 16, 2006 17:00:10 GMT
I don't like Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League for similar reasons, I can see what you're saying.
But I don't really care about most of them, and a few I actually hate. Having Boom Boom defeat the mind manipulator Forbush Man because she doesn't have a brain was the best moment a character like her can hope for.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 16, 2006 17:23:33 GMT
I can't say I hate any of them, but except for Elsa they are all really 'failed' characters (Or totally original to Ellis, which is obviously fine). Every one of them has had numerous chances in many titles without impressing anyone.
I still have no idea why Elsa got thrown in there, especially as Marvel seem interested in reviving so much of the supernatural side of their universe again, recently. Doing 'Monster Month' when the best character they have for dealing with monsters is tied up in Nextwave was one of the stupidest moves I've seen from them - which is really saying something!
How dumb do you have to be to create 'Buffy Croft' in the MU then do nothing with her?
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Post by hector on Dec 18, 2006 7:05:07 GMT
Frankly, E, they are all "failed" characters. They are all characters that for one reason or another failed to impress a large amount of people. Had Ellis not used them they would have remained in oscurity or killed off in next year Mega Crossover. The only probable exception is Machine Man, not because he's a good character, but because he has a little added caché because he was created by Jack Kirby.
And a 90's knockoff like Elsa would have been ridiculously out of place in a 50's Atlas homage like the recent Monster Month, so while indeed Marvel has made some really stupid moves in the past, that really wasn't one of them.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 18, 2006 7:55:17 GMT
One four issue mini-series with no support and that hardly anyone has ever heard of doesn't really count as well tested, Hec, you gotta admit. There has to be some kind of trying involved before a character can fail, surely?
I take your point on Monster Month, though. Homaging 50s monsters with no attempt to update for the sensibilities of a modern audience is not perhaps the wisest move in and of itself, but Elsa would not belong there.
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Post by hector on Dec 19, 2006 6:10:31 GMT
There are many, many charactars from either Marvel and DC which have only had a few appearances and then faded into oscurity, there are many reasons for that, and still the fact remains that they do so because they failed to make an impression.
On the other hand, we have characters with an established story like Machine Man who has had a consistant characterization for years being used for comedy by Ellis. Surely a character created by Jack Kirby who has been part of the MU for years deserves more respect that a character created 5 years ago by Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning?
Well, no, not really. Machine Man, Elsa, Boom Boom, Monica, all of them are D-List, the Marvel Universe is neither richer nor poorer because of those characters, they are just among the hundreds of characters the company has copyrighted. They can either be cannon fodder or stay in limbo. The only other choice is to have a writer make something worthwile with them, and Nextwave was.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Dec 19, 2006 6:24:33 GMT
I agreed with you right up to the last part of the last sentence I think a character with such huge potential as Elsa should be given more of a chance. But then you know that; and know also why I will never shift from that. I can prove it, after all
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