The future of comics?

[Elliot Kane]

A rather fascinating article by Steven Grant on where he sees the US industry in the future.

Do you think he's right or wrong?

[Gray Lensman]

Mmm. Hard to say as far as overall trends, though I suspect he could well have a point in here.

I would add, however, that there's another factor in this that I'm surprised Grant didn't address, and that's the Web. We have webcomics growing as a rising form of distribution, where anyone can start a website and make a comic if they have the tools. We're also seeing the major companies increasingly using online marketing to create comics and reach an audience, from Dark Horse Presents to Zuda to Marvel's online comics archive. There's still a great deal of possibility with the technology that's available.

The one thing I absolutely agree with Grant on, though, is that the creators need to start raising their game massively. There are too many bad to forgettable comics on the stands right now, to the point where many of them just blur together. There's also far too much of a reliance on events and stunts (most of which are poorly written) over clear, quality storytelling these days. The industry needs to take a good, hard look at itself soon, I think...

[Elliot Kane]

I thought the same thing regarding the web. more than anything else, that's changed the entire basis of the whole game.

[Alrik]

Could someone give me a short abstract or summary on what he says ? I think I didn't get it that much.

[The Sonar Chicken]

(Edit: corrected some statistics and stuff.)

Eh, I didn't get it either.

However, they do need to review the entire process from comic creation to publishing and distribution, etc. Btw, I used to read quite a bit of American comics as a child(don't recall most of the names) but I rarely do anymore: I just got distracted by manga and manhwa, I think.

As it is: I think that American comics can be really sophisticated and rather interesting. However, from the little that I've seen of them, it seems that producing them in color might add value to the comic but it also limits the amount of pages or volumes you can put out per year.

Also, rotating the team positions or changing the team members like art, font and comic layout, etc. per issue or book might add variety to a series but it doesn't allow the various members to improve that much since there'll likely be a lull for many between each issue(s) you're contracted to fulfill unless you're a veteran who's in high demand.

From what I've seen, some of the best manga creators I've admired have probably created between 50 to 100 volumes so far, estimated minimum 150 to 300 pages per book. And each book is published once every 2 to 6 months. And many creators only really start to drastically evolve after working on a number of pages of script, art, etc., like after 3000 to 4000 pages worth of content. Therefore, it seems that the current process doesn't really benefit a lot of artists and writers.

So, I think they need to reduce the amount of colored pages per issue or volume if they want to survive.

Also, from the few American comics I've seen, there're too many stereotypes littering the majority of them. The women are either overtly buff or way too submissive and the males must look like they've taken doses of steroids or be ultimate jerks, etc. With the exception of a few series, plenty feature characters who seem to be rooted in some "white man's world" where all males and females must be rigid like an arrow. There doesn't seem to be much accommodation for varied personalities and everyone and everything seems to be far too serious like there's a funeral in the process. :/

And finally: I think they'll need to see how receptive the audience is to new ideas and fresh stories. To be honest, if the audience aren't very receptive to varied themes like big science, physics, multi-ethnical issues, etc., or even simply just a variation in story-telling and narration, then the creators really need to create and target new audiences. Though even that... might be a trying task 'cos quite a few who worked in the manga industry(image editing, script editing/proofing, script translation) for companies like CMX, Tokyopop, Viz, etc. told me that Americans aren't always very receptive to new ideas compared to those from many other European countries. Though this could also be an issue of demographics, poor translation, mis-advertising and other factors.

And oh: I think that webcomics can be a good medium if you know how to pull in the audience. However, many webcomics have fallen through the cracks no matter how good the story and art is, how prompt or numerous the updates were and how widely advertised they were. So it's a "hit or miss" issue and webcomics should be just one of the many mediums they ought to try and not relied upon solely.

[Alrik]

Personally, I must admint that there are two points:

- I never liked the "Superman genre". Even as a kid.

- Too many comics center about this theme. There's time for new, for fresher themes !

What about Batman getting children ? How would nursing them be in the time of ... fighting against crime ?
What about Wonder Woman, Catwoman or someone else getting pregnant and having children ?

I rather like different themes, and I'm a fan of Bone and of Akiko. These are comics I actually like !

[The Sonar Chicken]

alrik said:

Personally, I must admint that there are two points:

- I never liked the "Superman genre". Even as a kid.

- Too many comics center about this theme. There's time for new, for fresher themes !

What about Batman getting children ? How would nursing them be in the time of ... fighting against crime ?
What about Wonder Woman, Catwoman or someone else getting pregnant and having children ?

I rather like different themes, and I'm a fan of Bone and of Akiko. These are comics I actually like !

Superman, huh? I never really bothered with the comics 'cos the issues I read were very stale: I think the problem had to do with continuity. I don't think all American issues about Superman have this problem but some certainly did: a chapter = a new story.

So, the writer can't always script out the villain's motivations via internal and external monologue, his thoughts, etc. Instead, the writer sometimes relies on huge chunks of narrations to convey many things about the character, which bores me as I always look for variety.

And you're quite right about the good guy vs villain stuff in comics all the time. The problem, I think... has to do with the motivations of the villain: a lot of villains are simply almost the same. Why the hell don't the villains ever learn from their mistakes?

And more importantly: I think they need to throw in "slice of life" stories in American superhero stories too. That means: sometimes documenting the ordinary, day-to-day life of an American do-gooder. That would, I think... flesh out the personality far better instead of trying to cram details into a story. Some Japanese superhero stories do that too... so why can't American comics do that either? (Maybe I've not read enough American comics so I'm unclear on this.)

Also, the nursing thingy is a good idea, that is, if you combine it with moral obligations and priority over who to look out for and how the guy/gal deals with it: the sick baby who could die from lack of care or the person who could be killed. Make the superhero human instead of omnipotent.

Also, I think they need to make the costumes far more stylish and more modern. What kinda person runs around in their underwear in the freezing cold? ;D Of course: I don't mean costume overkill like many manga superheros but some changes here and there would attract more readers.

And one last thing: cut down on the crossovers! They're far too confusing for many new readers.

[Elliot Kane]

US superhero comics are engaged in telling 'the neverending story' which means that there is never any real progression and any time any progression accidentally happens it has to be wiped away as quickly as possible.

Because the stories are not progressive, many of the techniques used in Japanese and other non-American comics are invalid for superhero comics, and actually make them worse if applied - the most obvious being 'decompression' - the use of character moments to show how the characters are learning, growing and changing. Obviously where there is no growth, learning or change the application of 'decompression' just leads to intensely boring rubbish that never leads anywhere.

The second problem facing US comics is distribution. While some new channels are opening up for graphic novels, comics are simply unwelcome in most general stores as they have no return policy, take up a lot of space compared to the amount of revenue they can generate and are risky sellers. As they are also easily damaged, this combines to result in most general stores simply not stocking them, so that the main source of comics (And often the only source) is comic shops. People who don't already read comics are incredibly unlikely to ever step into a comic shop, which means the market is pretty much set as the people who already read comics.

The US comic industry has thus come to regard itself in a very peculiar way, with even the 'Big Two' - Marvel & DC - hardly ever seeming to realise there is a world outside of America and certainly not looking at any format or approach that is different to their normal fare but which may sell better in various markets outside of the US.

What absolutely does not help is the average US comic reader, who does not seem to be interested in new characters, new approaches or indeed anything else that might be termed 'new' in any way. It's not that Marvel or DC don't try - they frequently put out new titles with new characters (Some of which are actually a lot better than their top selling stuff, IMO) - but these almost never last beyond a dozen issues because no-one buys them.

Too many US comics fans even fall into the ridiculous cliches of thinking 'Comics Are For Kids' (Despite reading them, which is bizarre to me - yes, we ARE talking adults, here...) and 'Comics = Superheroes'. The idea of comics as a medium for storytelling similar to films or novels has just never caught on in the US. Both of those absurd cliches are endemic outside of the comic reading population, which obviously deters new readers.

There are US comic fans who will continue to buy a title they know is utter crap because they have always done so, and even a lot who will not buy anything not put out by Marvel or DC. If you are an independent company (IE not Marvel or DC), this is what you are up against when you are trying to launch a new title or a new character...

Because they are feeling totally secure at the top, Marvel & DC frequently adopt an 'arranging deck chairs' policy so that they can get a good view of the iceberg, but they are the only ones who can do anything to turn the ship. They either will not or cannot, however, and they seem so self-satisfied at having a large portion of a tiny pie that it's hard to believe they are that concerned. I think they should be.

[The Sonar Chicken]

*Glossary: manga = Japanese comics
Manhwa = Korean comics in this post.

Oh boy... neverending story? Little wonder why that doesn't interest me at all. What is the point of a neverending story where it's the setting and other non-character details which change and not the personality of the various cast? That to me sounds really sterile.

Btw, you can probably safely expand the "US average comic reader" to include many who read manga, manhwa, non-US comics. Quite a number just don't seem to have any interest apart from the typical rubbish stories and some readers have been known to send hate mail to companies for daring to put out new materials.

As in: stories which include realistic gay/lesbian relationships, accurate science themes(properly researched), different art style, etc. Though, many of the younger readers are far more accepting so perhaps, the issue is also of demographics and publishing the type of comics which attracts them.

Talking about demographics, a big complaint among many of the young females and males is that they can't find a lot of American comics with a strong female protagonist which relates to them. They can find one in manga and manhwa 'cos the characters are often younger and have problems and issues they can relate to. What type of problems do American superheroes have? I don't know 'cos I can't remember.

But for the sake of the American comic scene: I hope they find a way out. 'Cos American comics actually inspired and sort of started out quite a bit of the Japanese manga when it was just starting out. It'd be a damn shame if it died off. Plus, there are things I'm interested in like Fables and a few others.

And yeah: the publishing companies should be concerned. 'Cos if this goes on, as the readers grow older and start stop reading comics, then what's going to happen to their market share? Also, I know that more and more comic readers are deserting American comics for Japanese manga and manhwa. I think that also includes young readers(around 12 to 15 or even younger), older readers too.

And now, this will be a little off-topic:

However, the massive shift of readers from 1 medium to another isn't always good. 'Cos to cope for the surging demand for manga, more and more companies are licensing a ton of lemons 'cos there're only so many good series they can afford to license. As for manhwa, the bubble already burst in America. In Korea, I think it burst quite a while ago.

Now, I know there are companies which only specialise in 1 medium of comics, right? Like solely American or Japanese, right? But there're also more companies which've started to diversify by investing in manga(Japanese) too.

Okay, the manga and anime(both very closely related) bubble in Japan are probably going to burst soon as more and more manga magazines are cancelled and more publishing companies going bankrupt, more anime houses downsizing/declaring bankruptcy. And this will likely have a slight or major effect on the American manga scene.

I wonder what would happen if both the Japanese and American comic bubbles burst in America at the same time or consequently. What would be the impact?

Therefore, if the American comic companies can strengthen their position in the American comics market, then the playing field might be levelled a little. It's still not too late even though the American recession has just started. 'Cos if they can do it like the Japanese indie visual novel publishers have done: macro(or was it micro-payment?) style, then they can still keep afloat yet ensuring that the readers can afford the issues/books.

[Elliot Kane]

American superhero comics are male power fantasies at their root, Luci, so the 'female' characters are usually pretty interchangeable with the male characters in terms of personality. Few if any act like you would expect a real woman to act.

Despite this, there is a lot of head scratching over why more women don't read superhero comics. Go figure! ;D

[The Sonar Chicken]

admin said:

American superhero comics are male power fantasies at their root, Luci, so the 'female' characters are usually pretty interchangeable with the male characters in terms of personality. Few if any act like you would expect a real woman to act.

Despite this, there is a lot of head scratching over why more women don't read superhero comics. Go figure! ;D

Oh right... I'd forgotten about that "American male fantasy" thingy. But you know? Even a lot of males(probably younger ones) are getting sick of it. Probably they put up with it only 'cos there wasn't another medium they could try.

And sorry for my massive post... I just finished editing it again. xD

[Elliot Kane]

I don't think Marvel or DC have the faintest clue exactly what it is they are selling, to be honest. The number of times they talk about trying to attract female readers, but every time I see what they put out to do so I nearly fall over laughing.

They're all: "Why don't young women want to read about 'Butch Bloodvessel'? Aren't his muscles large enough? Is he not Emo? Doesn't his flawlessly gorgeous female sidekick kick as much butt as he does?"

You'd think they'd take a clue from what women are writing themselves. Things like Girls With Slingshots, The Dreamer or Succubus Justice. They're nothing at all like superhero comics.

There are men out there who can write female friendly stories: I think the writer of Penny & Aggie is male, and I'm sure Phil Foglio, of Girl Genius is. So there's no real excuse.

Women like female characters who act like, well, women. You wouldn't think it was a hard concept to grasp, yet somehow it eludes them...

(Sidenote: GWS is NOT suitable for a younger readership)

[Alrik]

Sounds a bit like ... as if clichés and Fanbois kill what they love ... or sort of ...


It's a bit like with gaming: There are actually no female developers ... In principle ALL games are made by and for males ...

"Exceptions support the rule."

[Elliot Kane]

You're not far wrong there, Alrik...