Siegels now own half of Superman!!!

[SPS]

At least until possibly 2033:

Siegels own half of Superman

[Elliot Kane]

That's... interesting. Not sure what it'll do to DC or what it might mean for other people who created the iconic characters, but I doubt DC or Marvel are cheering at this ruling.

It's good for the Siegels, sure, but I'll wait to hear the ramifications before I cheer too loudly...

Good find, SPS

[peterh]

What a mess. There's no way in hell DC won't appeal this and if this decision does come through will we see the heirs of Kirby own half of Marvel?

Plus, I need to read up on some interviews. I've read some stuff that in some way contradicts the general view that DC left S&S penniless and on their knees. it's interviews by noted comic historians like Beerbolm and does conflict a bit with the current pow.

And if I forsake this thread to long then feel free to slap me and tell me to get to work

[hector]

peterh said:

I've read some stuff that in some way contradicts the general view that DC left S&S penniless and on their knees.

That's because they didn't. Siegel and Shuster were paid really well, but they decided to spend all of their money in legal fees trying to get full ownership of Superman and obviously because of this they were persona non grata at DC for the most part.

[peterh]

I've heard they were paid 500.000$ a year back then, which was a hell of a lot of money. Furthermore they were the same kind of contract that Bob Kane recieved but passed on it due to wanting full ownership.

[Gray Lensman]

For those interested, Newsarama also has an analysis of the Action Comics ruling.

This is interesting news. Right now, I'd prefer to wait and see how this affects DC and the industry at large. This is bound to have ramifications in the long term, though, assuming this ruling holds up and some higher court doesn't overturn the decision.

That said, I'm pretty sure DC would try to appeal this. From their perspective, I think they would have to if they want to maintain full control of the copyright. Will they actually succeed in doing it... now there's the question.

On the other hand, the Siegels don't have control over everything. For one, this applies to Action Comics #1 and not the wealth of other material that Siegel and Shuster did for DC. Also, DC still has the trademark, so they own the S-shield, the Superman name, and so forth.

I don't know about the heirs of Kirby and so on and what their legal standing is. I think the question is going to be whether the other creators submitted their creations as a work-for-hire or if it was something they created independently before selling them to the Big Two. If it's the latter... yeah, we can expect some more lawsuits. But it'll probably depend on the facts of the individual cases in question.

[hector]

peterh said:

I've heard they were paid 500.000$ a year back then, which was a hell of a lot of money. Furthermore they were the same kind of contract that Bob Kane recieved but passed on it due to wanting full ownership.

No, it was a lot less. More like $100,000. Which was still quite a bit back then.

And Kane didn't retain ownership. What he retained was full credit. But there is no doubt DC completely owns Batman.

[peterh]

hector said:

peterh said:

I've heard they were paid 500.000$ a year back then, which was a hell of a lot of money. Furthermore they were the same kind of contract that Bob Kane recieved but passed on it due to wanting full ownership.

No, it was a lot less. More like $100,000. Which was still quite a bit back then.

And Kane didn't retain ownership. What he retained was full credit. But there is no doubt DC completely owns Batman.

I know Kane never recieved full ownership and that s&s declined a similar contract due to wanting full ownership of Superman. They could've been set for life, but alas - never happened.

Anyway, should be arsed to look up the interview. It could very well be they were paid what would be the equivalent of 500.00$ a year today.

[Gay Titan]

But does this mean we get the return of Conner Kent aka Superboy???

[Elliot Kane]

Good questin, Rodney. Some sort of accommodation is gonna have to be made on this one, and it's reasonable to think it might include Superboy, too. Whether anyone is willing to be reasonable is, alas, unknowable at this stage...

[Gray Lensman]

There's a new analysis of the ruling at CBR for those interested.

I'm not so sure that DC couldn't bring back Kon if they really wanted to, mind. He was created before the Siegels were able to exercise their rights over Superboy. And Superman-Prime basically is the original Superboy, albeit portrayed as a psychotic nutjob with a different name, and Prime's been all over the place.

Hopefully something will get worked out, though. It'll be better for everyone if there's an equitable deal made that allows DC to keep control of the character.

[peterh]

I got arsed to finding the thread - even showcasing documents from the 1947 lawsuit. Rather interesting and while in no means the last word on the subject it does represent a slightly other pow than usually seen.

Siegel & Shuster legal battle


Here's a few interesting snippets.

Irwin Donenfeld, who had no discernible reason to lie when i began interviewing him in the late 90s for a few years, some 30 years after he had sold out his interest in DC National/Independent News/Kinney/Warner Bros, screwed over by Jack Liebowitz & Steve Ross, was very adamant and continued to defend his father's actions in the mid 40s that if S & S had never sued like they did, they would have enjoyed the fruits of their creation to the tune of most likely millions of dollars more than the million or so paid to them by Harry Donenfeld in that decade they had their contract concerning Superman

These documents are all related to the 1947 litigation initiated by Siegel/Shuster against National Periodicals. Unfortunately no Superman "contract", as far as I can tell, was part of the case though all sorts of fascinating information, such as the assertion by DC that Siegel/Shuster were stated to have received $400,000 from Superman between 1938-1947, more than half of which came from McClure Newspaper Syndicates which was publishing the Superman newspaper comic strip.

Very intriguing! Calculating that in 2007 dollars that would be worth $ 3,686,098.65.

[peterh]

Digged around some more and there's also some comments on S&S in this thread about Major Malcolm Wheeler Nicholson.