PC DnD

[Elliot Kane]

High enough DEX gives you a bonus to hit with missile weapons. It's strength for melee

[Gray Lensman]

True. My love of ranged weapons gives itself away. ;D

[Elliot Kane]

I always preferred Mages

Many's the time my Unseen Servant went forward to gently raise and lower an opposition mage's robes (Or worse ;D) in order to hopelessly distract him while I cast the real damage dealers - like shrink (What a NICE helm that fighter is wearing. heh.). The main problem with a CRPG - no creative use of spell casting is possible. Sigh!

Rock to mud, Wall of iron, enlarge on wall of iron, mud to rock. My patent dragon killer. Works, too

[Tsel]

I love playing Mages too, but when D&D became AD&D I really love playing Sorcerers the best.
I’ve had a lot of great PnP experiences playing a Spell caster.
You can do so much more like Levitation on the Enemy instead of yourself and simply wait for the spell to wear off. At 50 feet and Orc having to roll 5d10 damage from falling is pretty funny.

Tsel ;D

[Dark Phoenix Rising]

Tsel - Sorcerers are 3rd edition DnD

Elliot - A lot of war games use different sided dice as well, and I've seen a few comercial games that do, although they are rare.

Steve - With 3rd edition and 3.5 edition they have gradually made the classes more and more cookie cutterish, raising the reliance on "prestige" classes to provide the better and more funky abilities that you may want. In a lot of ways you have more options about what your character can do, but in addition to that you only have those options, there isn't much room for creative play (my favourite example is that they removed any spell from 3.5 that had an ambiguious nature and replaced it with spells that didn't e.g. reduce has been replaced by reduce person or shrink item). Basically they have over simplified the game to try to appeal to new players.

[Tsel]

DL >

Are you sure Sorcerers are 3rd Ed???
Because, Baldur's Gate II has the Sorcerer class and its 2nd Ed rules; however, I am by no means an authority on D&D so maybe BG2 is a Hybrid of 2nd and 3rd rules?

Tsel

EDIT:

You are absolutely right DL.

Sorcerer's Way Through Baldur's Gate II (Part II)
by Taluntain

Making of a Mage? Nay, making of a Sorcerer.

As I promised in the first part of the journal, I'll spill some secrets about how playing a Sorcerer looks and feels like. As you probably know already, the Sorcerer class is one of the three new 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons classes that were added to Baldur's Gate II. (The other two are the Monk and Barbarian).

The main difference between your regular mage and a sorcerer is in their spellcasting ability. Mages have to pick and memorize the spells before they can cast them, where sorcerers get a fixed amount of spells they can cast per day.
The catch is, all of the sorcerer's spells are one level below what a regular mage could cast with the same amount of experience/level. Sorcerers should also be able to wear armor and cast spells while doing so, but with a hefty chance that the spell will fail. Another interesting point is that the number of spells that they are able to cast is determined by the Charisma attribute.

That is how it's SUPPOSED to be in the 3rd Edition D&D. However, due to the fact that BGII is not a 3rd Edition game, the actual implementation of this class in BGII was adjusted to to fit the current 2nd Edition rules and engine the game is using.

Thank you for the heads-up.

In any case, I still love the Sorcerer class.

Again, thank you DL
Tsel

[Dark Phoenix Rising]

Sorcerer's have the same armour restrictions as mages in 3rd ed. and the same chances of spell failier as well. Originally the sorcerer was added to 3rd ed because they hadn't finished the psionics and so they needed something to fill the gap, it is now a more combat orientated class than the wizard as their spells are set at the point of learning them, and so the potential for wide ranging spell use is significantly reduced.

[Elliot Kane]

This is why 3rd ed is my least favourite. No more magic missiling enemy bow strings ANYTHING you do with an Unseen Servant counts as a combat attack They have tried to kill all creativity within the game, which was the main thing that made it fun to play a Mage in the first place...

[Tsel]

Tsel reassures Elliot...

Now, now Elliot.
Everything will be alright.

Tsel ;D

[Elliot Kane]

Certainly will, Tsel I only ever use a somewhat adapted form of 1st ed anyway

[Gray Lensman]

Thanks for the insight, DL.

I like the idea of more customizable classes, but not at the cost of creativity. I like having a certain amount of flexibility, especially when it comes to combat actions. 3rd Edition doesn't sound like it would have been my kind of game.

But then, I'm more interested in characterization and actual roleplaying, and always have been. Part of that is how a character behaves in combat. Limit their options too greatly and you handicap the roleplaying possibilities.

I think I'm sticking to the earlier rules, thanks.

[Tsel]

But I Like the 3Ed Rules on how you distribute points for your attributes.

Tsel

[Dark Phoenix Rising]

Steve - the options for combat in 3rd ed have been greatly increased, it's on the magic side that they have kinda cut down

[Shan]

OK, guys, I admit I am completely lost with this conversation. I have never played D & D and I know nothing about the rules, but I do have some questions that maybe you can help with.

First of all I am assuming that D&D stands for Dungeons and Dragons, right?
Now does this refer to a specific game that these rules, as you are calling them, were made up for?

If so then, you are saying that the rules for this game have been adopted for computer rpgs, right?

What does AD&D stand for? You guys are mentioning different sets of rules and I don't get it, 1st edition, 2nd edition, 3rd edition. Do these rules determine how my character performs in games like BG, DD, NWN, etc?

Shan

[Shan]

DragonLord do you know anything about how games are programmed?
Even if you don't, do you know if they use a random number generator for dice rolls? If not how would they program a dice roll?

Shan

[Shan]

greylensman said:

Thanks for the insight, DL.

I like the idea of more customizable classes, but not at the cost of creativity. I like having a certain amount of flexibility, especially when it comes to combat actions. 3rd Edition doesn't sound like it would have been my kind of game.

But then, I'm more interested in characterization and actual roleplaying, and always have been. Part of that is how a character behaves in combat. Limit their options too greatly and you handicap the roleplaying possibilities.

I think I'm sticking to the earlier rules, thanks.

Steve, here are you talking about computer games or another type of game?

If it is computer, then wouldn't you have to use the rules that the game is built on for your character?

Shan

[Shan]

High enough DEX gives you a bonus to hit with missile weapons. It's strength for melee

Elliot, here you are talking about archers right? So if I played a druid who was an archer, I would need high wisdom for spells and high dex for using a bow, right?

Does strength come into play for archers at all?

Shan

[Shan]

dragonlord said:

Sorcerer's have the same armour restrictions as mages in 3rd ed. and the same chances of spell failier as well. Originally the sorcerer was added to 3rd ed because they hadn't finished the psionics and so they needed something to fill the gap, it is now a more combat orientated class than the wizard as their spells are set at the point of learning them, and so the potential for wide ranging spell use is significantly reduced.

DragonLord, are you saying here that a sorcerer is more combat oriented than a wizard? I kinda always thought they fell into the same area and that the only difference was the way they learned their spells (sorcerer had to pick at level up and a wizard could learn at any time if they were of the right level for the spells) and one was chrisma based and the other intelligence based.

Shan

[Elliot Kane]

Shan...

D&D = Dungeons & Dragons (The more basic precursor to AD&D)
AD&D = Advanced Dungeons & Dragons

There are three editions of AD&D, each progressively worse than the one before. 2nd ed compounded the errors of 1st, while 3rd is aimed at simplifying the rules to an extent that makes the game boring for anyone who has played either of the older editions. Also, the terrible attempt at explaining the alignment system is embarassingly bad.

All of the Infinity Engine games are based around AD&D rules of one type or another. Most are 2nd ed. NWN is based on 3rd ed.

All RPGs ultimately owe their genesis to D&D, which explains the enormous similarities between them, and CRPGs are based upon their pen & paper counterparts.

While DD and many others are not based upon the AD&D rules, they are nonetheless related.

The only CRPG I can recall that is based on another RTT (Round The Table) RPG is Vampire, which is based upon the RPG of the same name from White Wolf. There may well be others I have forgotten.

Hope this helps

***

For a Ranger/Druid, you would need high Wisdom for spells, high Dexterity for good bow to hits and high Strength for good damage

[Gray Lensman]

shantara said:

Steve, here are you talking about computer games or another type of game?

I was talking about AD&D 3rd Edition, which is the rules system that NWN is based on. The PNP version, that is. I've never roleplayed 3rd Edition on pen-and-paper.

As to your other questions, I think El covered the basics pretty well.

If it is computer, then wouldn't you have to use the rules that the game is built on for your character?

Yep. The computer games use a specific set of rules, and the player can't change those.