"Managers" spineless?

[riverman]

I was wondering what you all would think of this short theory about managers at companies and "bosses' in general.

It sems to me that to become a manager at a company means that you have had to do whatever the owner/boss says, The Boss likes your non questioning ways and promotes you to a managerial position . Whenever there was some task that you found unreasonable , you did it anyway.

A "worker "sticks up for himself and won't do the jobs he see's as unreasonable for him to do, and makes a choice . This person will never become a manager because the bosses don't like people with a backbone

Is this an accurate description ?

[Elliot Kane]

No.

It actually depends where you are on the 'Cycle Of Businesses'.

Every business is begun by an entrepeneur. In order to be a successful business, said entrepeneur is obviously good at what he does, and will promote good people to management. Unfortunately, an entrepeneur cannot promote anyone as good as he is or even close, as anyone else who is also an entrepeneur will create their own business.

The entrepeneur retires. The person who takes over is not as good, knows it, and feels inadequate as a result. They promote people who they can work with and who will look up to them while also being no threat to their position.

In time, they also retire and move on, and the next boss will be worse than the last, and will promote people who are no threat... And so it goes, until the biggest imbeciles in any company are the bosses, who dislike change and "rocking the boat" because the cannt cope with either.

Change is required, the people at the top cannot cope, and the business goes under.

The cycle of businesses, in a nutshell

[Shan]

Around here, you gave a pretty good description of how things work in the corporate ladder. You either play the game or you don't move up it especially in some companies.

Sad but that is the way it works.

[riverman]

Yeah , E. That makes sense. I'll never be management material . I wonder if that's something to proud of or not? I mean rather than bitc# about some task that I find unreasonable , I'll simply opt out. The others will complain to no end , but they do it laterally. They let me get away with makng my own descisions about what I will and will not do , so am I the only sane one or what ? it's not like I don't care , I need the job and everything , but they never give me any clue to their expected frustrations with me. Could it be that they all wish they had the courage to resist . I"m just not sure.

[riverman]

shantara said:

Around here, you gave a pretty good description of how things work in the corporate ladder. You either play the game or you don't move up it especially in some companies.

Sad but that is the way it works.

I feel that perhaps you should get more respect for being an independant thinker and making choices in light of the 'consequences"

[Elliot Kane]

People are people, Riverman. Being a manager doesn't automatically make you better or worse than the next guy. Same thing for 'not being management material' of course

***

If anyone's wondering, I was saving 'The Cycle Of Businesses' to write up on a rainy day as yes, it is part of Humanology. Riverman just gave me an excuse to do it early

[janggut]

another Cyclical topic for EK. ;D *thumbs up*

[Alrik]

Rumor says, there are even some companies out there who rather favour managers ("sub-bosses") who are NOT always saying "yes" to everything, but instead show that they are able to think on their own.

In other parts of government or/and econonomy, these people might be considered "dangerous".

[Tsel]

You know it’s pretty funny reading this.
For some reason, everywhere I seem to work, I become the manager in a year or two.
I never asked to be manager.
I never wanted to be manager, but somehow that’s where I land.

I know what you mean river.
I call those types of leaders, “Gutless, Spineless, Bastards”.
Take a breath and grow a pair already I say to myself about them.

As a manager, it never fails I almost always get in a shouting match with the Boss; because, I’m telling them like it is.
I refuse to micro manage my team.
While I was still in the military a E6 tried to take my men away from me while we were out in the field; because, his men wasn’t getting the job done.
I was an E5 so I had some clout and I told him in exact words he could go toss off.
He wasn’t taking my men, just because we got our task done early and efficiently and he couldn’t with his men.
We did the same exact task and we were done 5 hours earlier than him.

I’d take the bullet first from the higher ups before I’d let those who worked under me get reamed.
HOWEVER, if any of those who worked for me was slacking off.
I’d make their life a living hell and they’d hate my guts with a passion.

[Elliot Kane]

To me it's obvious why you get promoted, Tsel. What you describe is exactly what a good manager does. They're just kinda rare.

[riverman]

That's the thing , If people are slacking a manager should not beat around the bush in telling them so or else why would the slack employee ever change his ways.

[janggut]

i agree with how Tsel does things as a manager though as less than hardworking workers will really hate his guts.

a boss is not about being likeable to his/her subs. rather it's about getting a job done.

[riverman]

But to me there should not be this thin line , either be a hard ass and stop trying to be liked or then don't go running to the higher ups because your too much of a pusssy to change the slack employee on your own

[Glance A'Lot]

Indeed, being liked is not a managerial quality - however what a manager needs to be good is BOTH the professional AND the human RESPECT of his people.

If you look around, you probably find a lot who have either, and that may be what got them the function - because to earn (!!!) both takes some time.

*

Those who 'function' well, like a well greased wheel in the mill, will keep the business running, possibly even make a career - but they'll not develop/evolutionize it.

*

You will find that those keen on hiring people that are 'no danger' to them, lack self-confidence. They will forever be wheel, driven by others - they will not be among those that actively put motion on the wheels. In most companies you will find some 'drivers' - not necessarily at the positions one would expect at first glance or where they should be from organizational logic.