The Best... RPGs!

[Elliot Kane]

I suspect we'll see a lot more consensus on this one than most, but still...

Definition of RPG: RPGs: main focus: player choice, characterisation and freedom of action. The player usually has a large amount of choice in what type of character to play, including race, sex, attitudes ('Alignment'), choices in dialogue trees, how the character develops skills and interacts with others, which companions to take along and which to leave behind, romantic choices, etc. The player is rarely straitjacketed in his movements, even from the start of the game, and will have a wide area to roam over. Decisions will often (Though not always) affect the plot (At least in some minor way) and there are often multiple methods to solve quests. EXP is given for quest completion and achieving goals as well as for killing enemies. The world is designed to be as real as possible to draw the player in and allow more choice of action. Combat is most often real time. Many are party based games.

***

I expect some of my choices to create a few screams of the 'That's not an RPG!' variety, but they fit the definition...

This is also NOT a thread for JRPGs, obviously. They'll get their own another time.

***

Planescape: Torment - still the best party based RPG ever made and arguably the best of any type ever, PS:T is the benchmark by which all other RPGs are judged - and most are found wanting. With a great plot, awesome characterisation and some of the best characters to appear in any game, ever, PS:T rules all.

The Witcher - the best single character RPG ever, The Witcher has a deep storyline with meaningful choices that are often between shades of grey rather than the usual easy black-and-white morality available in most games. Possibly the first cRPG to ever be truly written for an adult audience, The Witcher has redeemed the genre after many years of being lost in the wilderness.

Jade Empire - sold as an Action-RPG, it's really nothing of the sort, despite the large amount of fighting. With definite moral choice (Albeit a very poorly implemented attempt to do ''non-evil evil') and a wide variety of options in characterisation, romance and paths through the game, JE even has multiple endings that depend entirely on the choices you make and the path you take. Every companion you pick up has an interesting back story and adds depth to the overall game.

Overlord - no, you don't level up, but other than that, it's an RPG. Overlord has a fairly open world, a lot of player choice - especially moral/ethical - and even a choice of romances! It has sub-quests that you can complete, some of which you can only get if you are good or bad (Mainly bad ;D). The system relies on obtained power-ups rather then leveling as such, but the principle is the same and some of the higher level power ups depend on how good or bad you are as to which you get. You are totally free to be nice in some areas and nasty in others if you like. There are even multiple endings that depend on the choices you make.And it's an awesome game!

So - what are your favourite RPGs?

[mysterd]

Fallout - Turn-based RPG gaming at its absolute best. With a much different setting than many other RPG's at its time -- this one takes place in a modern post-apocalyptic world in California -- this game spun the world on its head. Forget bows for long-range weapons -- you have guns here. Take into account, many quests can be solved without combat if you so choose; most quests can be solved in numerous ways (like most Black Isle games); and extreme over-the-top violence and language when it came out; and some pretty outlandish characters (i.e. Harold and Bob are a duo-and-a-half; the weird looking leader of The Brotherhood; etc etc); wit and comedy like no other game. Fallout was the start of Black Isle's greatness.

Planescape: Torment - To basically add to what Kane said, this was basically an evolution of what Black Isle did with Fallout -- take another unconventional gameworld and used it for a RPG. This time, they took the odd Planescape realm of AD&D. This game has the best prose probably ever written in a game will be found within this game. The game has -- like some other Black Isle RPG's -- a lot of unconventional stuff in it. For example, the player is The Nameless One is immortal, so when he does die, he gets placed somewhere else which will completely allow the player to avoid reloading their last save (if they so choose); the player's past is quite villainous; many quests can be finished without violence; many quests have loads of solutions to them; some of the truly most bizarre and coolest characters and areas can be found within this game; etc etc. I could go on and on about this masterpiece...

The Witcher - Basically...what Kane said. Now, let me add to this. This probably is the best RPG since Planescape. CD Projekt obviously took what they learned from porting many of the great Black Isle and Bioware RPG's over to Poland -- i.e. BG games and Planescape -- and took that formula to create the most adult-orientated RPG ever made. Choices in a game have never mattered more, as things you decide are often a shade of gray -- where even making a "good" decision can be way more consequential than making a "bad" decision. Also, when making these decisions in the game, you'll see the results of your decision some 5 or 10 hours later -- so you will feel like you don't have to go back to a save 5 minutes ago to change your decision. By decisions mattering so far down, you are compelled to stick with your decision, like it or not. Also, there's a revamping of the Diablo combat system -- where also the timing of your button-press matters, not how fast you can click the mouse. Witcher has many of the traits that made Planescape, BG series, and Fallout great -- intriguing characters; unique gameworld; lots of decisions that will matter; and excellent combat -- no doubt about it, this is one of the best RPG's in recent memory.


Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn - While the original Baldur's Gate set down a great foundation on how to do a strategic real-time RPG and was an excellent game when it came out, BG2 improved in every regard on the formula and expanded on it -- namely with a much better and deeper storyline; more epic character leveling; some very open-ended style chapters (i.e. see Chapter 2); and much improved prose. BG2 showed the world that this is how to truly do a RPG sequel.

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - While Morrowind was a great RPG in many regards, it was not released with the polish and technical excellence Oblivion was released with. Not even close, as Morrowind was extremely buggy upon its release, yet nowhere as buggy as Daggerfall -- though, Oblivion was quite stable. Oblivion's combat system had a much more visceral feel to it that Morrowind was lacking. Oblivion was the most stable release from BethSoft in this series -- and so far this is their crowning jewel in this series. Oblivion improved on Morrowind in so many regards -- such as the level of voice-acting; the game was now fully voice-acted; much better storytelling and dialogue; more "unique" side quests; less generic-ness in NPC's; quests often had more than one way to finish them (as opposed to Morrowind); etc.

[Terrordar]

Fallout 1

Fallout 2

[Censored] the rest of that [Censored]

[Lews]

Divine Divinity.

[Censored]es.

[Flix]

Amen, Lews.



.....



Plus, The Witcher.

[Ubereil]

I'd say you forgot story in your definition of RPG's there, Elliot.

My list? Without motivations (yet):

1: Planescape:Torment.
2: Fallout 2.
3: Vampire: The Masquerade:Bloodlines.
4: Fallout.
5: Arcanum.

Übereil

[mysterd]

I'd definitely put Vampire: Bloodlines in my list of Best RPG's -- yes.

About Arcanum, I'd say it's probably the most underrated RPG of all time.

Both Troika games unfortunately suffered b/c of bugs and technical issues upon their release, but were much more stable upon their final patch. Though, the community more so than anyone has really done these games justice, smashing out still numerous and ridiculous amounts of bugs and technical problems with their Unofficial Patches.

[Flix]

Arcanum definitely benefited from the unofficial content (and the resolution mods). This game is great, and definitely takes third place after The Witcher and Divinity. And can't forget Planescape: Torment - the best of the Black Isle RPG's.

[Nero the Glorious]

• Grandia II - The list isn't in order but this is by far #1
  
• Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen (the N64 version was also good...so was the Tactics game for GBA)
  
• Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
  
• FFVII
  
• Divine Divinity
  
• Jade Empire
  
• NwN (All of em)
  
• Zelda
  
• There are others I am sure...
  

[Flix]

Any more thoughts on Jade Empire? - I've seen it mentioned a few times in this thread. Another intriguing RPG that I somehow missed.

[Elliot Kane]

Flix - I have all the Baldur's Gate games, all the Neverwinter Nights games, both Divinity games and a ton of others besides, and my top four RPGs are the ones I listed. In about that order. Should tell you how much I rate Jade Empire.

It has the best plot of any RPG ever, possibly any computer game ever. Really. It's jaw dropping. You should play it.

[mysterd]

I liked the Jade Empire setting and characters better than the actual storyline itself.

Jade was pretty good -- it's Bioware, so what do you expect? Nothing less....
...Well, except NWN: Original Campaign; always got to be one exception to the rule.

I'll take Planescape over Jade any day.

[mysterd]

This seems like the appropriate place to put this.
RPGCodex looks at the RPG's of the last 10 years - from 2000 to current year of 2010 (so far).
And they even have opinions of Game Designers of what RPG's they liked best of the last decade.

[Elliot Kane]

Quite a bizarre starting list. Seems to include a number of games that are only available from online sources (Aveyond, Depths Of Peril, etc) but omits both Exit Fate and Last Scenario, which are superb.

Mind you, I can't believe they picked a reviewer who hasn't played Torment. Bizarre choice...

[Gray Lensman]

Some of mine shouldn't be too surprising, but here goes anyway...

Persona 4: One of the very few console games I'd include, and easily one of my favorite games in recent years. Within the game system, there's a tremendous amount of options in Persona 4. The PC gets a certain number of actions that he can perform within the confines of a single day, but within that day he can do more or less whatever you want him to: study, develop relationships with other characters, work (to gain money and skills), go off to fight monsters in the Midnight Channel, go fishing, or anything of a number of other things. Also, romances are purely optional... you can romance anyone you want, but you can also just be friends with them without harming your Social Links (one of its many improvements from Persona 3). Also, your choice of ending depends entirely on your in-game decisions, though you'll get a better ending if you don't accept the easy way out. Persona 4 is also one of my favorite story-driven RPG's, with a careful balance between light comedy and deep psychological drama.

Planescape: Torment: But this one's kind of a given. I don't think there's much more I can add on this one that hasn't been said already.

Dragon Age: Origins: My other favorite game from last year. This one set the bar in player options, really. You decide what kind of character you want, and you can undertake quests in any way you want, and that's leaving out the vast open area to explore. I like that Dragon Age gives the player a lot of really difficult ethical choices, which highlight what a generally bleak world this is. This game makes you feel as though you're changing the course of the entire world (for good or ill), and that's not an easy thing to achieve.

Vampire: Bloodlines: Another open-ended game with a ton of options, and you can play it in any of a number of ways. Good stuff.

Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn: A vast improvement over the original in so many ways. A truly epic story with an open world and a wealth of sidequests, battles against some truly epic opponents, options to develop your own character alignment, and a lot more. This is probably one of my most replayed games, to be honest.

Star Ocean 2: Another rare console game that I'd include. The high point of the Star Ocean series for a lot of reasons, mainly because of it allows for much more options than your standard jRPG. There is a set plot, but within that framework, there's a lot of places you can go. You ultimately choose who will be in your party aside from your two lead characters, and the story will follow one of those leads depending on your preference. The game also allows you Private Actions that will develop your relationships with the characters in your party, which makes a notable difference on what ending you ultimately get. Neither Tri-Ace nor Square ever really improved on this one, and it's really a shame.

[Flix]

Apr 17, 2010 15:19:32 GMT Elliot Kane said:

Quite a bizarre starting list. Seems to include a number of games that are only available from online sources (Aveyond, Depths Of Peril, etc)

I got Depths of Peril at the store. It's alright.

[Ubereil]

I just read your definition and realized that Vampire:The Masquerade:Bloodlines doesn't qualify because you don't get XP for killing enemies.

And, oddly enough, I'm not interested in reading that article.

Übereil

[mysterd]

Apr 18, 2010 9:14:39 GMT Ubereil said:

I just read your definition and realized that Vampire:The Masquerade:Bloodlines doesn't qualify because you don't get XP for killing enemies.

You get XP points for finishing missions/quests.
Mass Effect 2 does the same thing, pretty much.

[Ubereil]

You do indeed get XP from finnishing quests (or parts of quests), but that according to Elliot's definition you get XP from quests and killing enemies in RPG's.

;D

Übereil

[Elliot Kane]

Which is why I included Overlord on my list which has no EXP of any kind, Ube

Do read the whole post, there's a good chap! ;D