Vegetarianism and Veganism

[fughawzi]

Any other vegetarians on the board, or even those who lean towards it?

I've been vegan for two years and vegetarian for a little over a year before that. It might sound strange, but I really enjoy it. Veganism helped me discover my love of baking and I hope to open a vegan bakery one day. I was also going to start a recipe thread if anyone is interested?

[cleglaw]

No meat , fish, poultry or eggs since 1977 for me.

[fughawzi]

Really? Oh, that is so cool! Do you have any stories? What is your opinion on how stuff has changed? You just became the most interesting person to me, haha. I'm sorry!

I do have a question though (Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm an unnaturally curious person), why do you still do dairy? We could welcome you into the vegan realm with lots and lots of cookies.

I want to be you when I'm older.


..Sorry, I just got way too excited about that. So cool!

[Lews]

I'm vegetarian!

November 2 was the last day I, on purpose >.<, had meat, poultry, or fish.

Since then 3 mistakes where food had something in it (chicken broth twice, anchovy paste in dressing once).

Recently in the last month been trying to give up eggs for good. After that going to try to get rid of milk and slowly take myself off stuff until there is only cheese left. And that one is going to be tricky lol.

I just wish I had any idea how to actually cook =/

[Glance A'Lot]

I'm an unnaturally curious person

Ahem - it should read "I'm an unnaturally curious person" as we all are

[cleglaw]

May 17, 2009 5:33:15 GMT fughawzi said:

Really? Oh, that is so cool! Do you have any stories? What is your opinion on how stuff has changed? You just became the most interesting person to me, haha. I'm sorry!

I do have a question though (Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm an unnaturally curious person), why do you still do dairy? We could welcome you into the vegan realm with lots and lots of cookies.

I want to be you when I'm older.


..Sorry, I just got way too excited about that. So cool!

My wife and son are also vegetarians. My mother stopped eating meat when I suggested to her that it might help her arthritis, and it did for a few years. She still eats meat or fish on occasion.
My son was a vegetarian from the time of conception. In his late teenage years and very early 20s he began eating meat, but has switched back and is engaged to a mostly vegan young lady. Sometimes he brings a bunch of friends over for a meal, and they love it because their parents eat meat; also my wife is a wonderful cook.

Milk is for nourishing life, not taking it. I do avoid cheeses that contain animal rennet (as opposed to microbial rennet) -- since rennet comes from slaughtered calves.
I do appreciate vegan food, and most of my meals are vegan, but I do eat some dairy. One has to draw the line somewhere. I love it when meals in restaurants are listed as vegan, because then I know I can safely eat them.

May 17, 2009 7:59:53 GMT Lews said:

I'm vegetarian!

November 2 was the last day I, on purpose >.<, had meat, poultry, or fish.

Since then 3 mistakes where food had something in it (chicken broth twice, anchovy paste in dressing once).

Recently in the last month been trying to give up eggs for good. After that going to try to get rid of milk and slowly take myself off stuff until there is only cheese left. And that one is going to be tricky lol.

I just wish I had any idea how to actually cook =/

Do you have any specific questions about cooking?
Mistakes do happen. Sometimes food manufacturers put meat products into the most unexpected places. One has to read labels carefully. And there are some non-vegetarian ingredients whose names are deceiving.
For example, resinous glaze (also known as confectioner's glaze, shellac, pharmaceutical glaze, pure food glaze and natural glaze) is made from insects. It is used in making many shiny candies.

[kitty]

I guess I shouldn´t comment on this thread, though, since I´m the moderator.. I do it anyway.

I considered myself an Anti-Vegetarian for many years, simply, because I couldn´t eat a lot of veggis and stuck to a meaty diet.
I got over myself only after leaving my parents and would say I eat more balanced now.

I personally do not understand vegans. My best friend is vegan. If it´s a desicion to not hurt animals, than I still can´t see why one would eat plants then, since it´s most animals´food.

I met a frutarian once, her diet contained fruits that fell from trees, not fruit that is taken from them. Though I saw her ideal and can honor her motif, it seems unclever to me to risk ones own health for such a matyr-like mission to rescue everything.

My friend´s vegan because "it makes her feel more vital" - never understood that sentence.

Also, I think it isn´t right to raise a child as vegan/vegetarian. Seems similar to the religiondiscussion to me - why would I force my ideology on my child when I´m so convinced it´s the best thing when I can simply wait until the child is old enough to decide itself?

--> On a moderators note would I appriciate no praising of any eating style, please. Just so nobody feels bad for not having the same regimes than someone else. <--

(hope Eli agrees)

[fughawzi]

I don't get what you mean about not eating plants? Because it can be animal's food? The vegetables we get from stores and farmer's markets weren't produced for animals, they have specific crops for livestock..

I'm vegan because it isn't necessary to my survival to use animal products at all. I don't see the point in doing something that is unnecessary and causes harm to animals, the planet, and my body.

I see raising a child vegetarian or vegan just the same as raising one as a meat eater. You are forcing your way of life on the child no matter what, your way is just more common than mine. And I'm sorry, I didn't notice anyone praising one style of eating over the other? I already told Elliot I was starting this thread..

Joe, I promise one day to teach you how to cook. And to send you a box full of vegan baked goods. I still owe you that from your 18th birthday. I'm so flaky.. Maybe we can do phone classes? Haha.

[cleglaw]

May 17, 2009 9:53:59 GMT kitty said:

I guess I shouldn´t comment on this thread, though, since I´m the moderator.. I do it anyway.

There is no reason why being the moderator should keep you from entering a thread.

May 17, 2009 9:53:59 GMT kitty said:

I personally do not understand vegans. My best friend is vegan. If it´s a desicion to not hurt animals, than I still can´t see why one would eat plants then, since it´s most animals´food.

1. It is a healthier diet. While meat is high in protein, it is a major contributing factor in many diseases.
2. It is a more compassionate diet. It is true that plants are the food of animals; in fact, many insects are killed in order to bring fruits and vegetables to the marketplace. Unfortunately, we cannot completely avoid the taking of life.

May 17, 2009 9:53:59 GMT kitty said:

My friend´s vegan because "it makes her feel more vital" - never understood that sentence.

Try it. Perhaps then you will understand.

May 17, 2009 9:53:59 GMT kitty said:

Also, I think it isn´t right to raise a child as vegan/vegetarian. Seems similar to the religiondiscussion to me - why would I force my ideology on my child when I´m so convinced it´s the best thing when I can simply wait until the child is old enough to decide itself?

Parents always want what they believe is best for their children.

May 17, 2009 9:53:59 GMT kitty said:

--> On a moderators note would I appriciate no praising of any eating style, please. Just so nobody feels bad for not having the same regimes than someone else. <--

(hope Eli agrees)

This is absolutely wrong. We cannot state we are happy about the way we live?! Vegetarians cannot talk about their lifestyle here without being criticized for it? I will add that this thread is really for the celebration of vegetarianism and meeting other vegetarians who are on the board.
Personally I wish that you wouldn't try to change it to a thread in which we are placed in the position of having to defend our lifestyle.

We are vegetarians because we want to be.

This is not the way to welcome a new member to the forum.

[Elliot Kane]

Sorry, Kit, but Elliot does not agree.

***

Praise your own lifestyle by all means. Just don't attack someone else's. No-one here is doing that, so it's a good thread. Nothing at ALL wrong with exchanging thoughts and ideas on your chosen lifestyle - it's what the forum section is here for

This is the kind of thread I was hoping for when I opened this section, in fact.

If you want to start a 'meat eater's appreciation thread' Kit, go for it

[The Sonar Chicken]

I've tried abolishing meat and fish and other forms of dairy products before, from my diet. However, it didn't really work 'cos I live with my family and we've to prepare everyone's meals at once, due to lack of time. This also means buying all raw food en masse and so on. Plus, I don't feel like travelling all over the island just because <said shops> don't sell <certain vegetable/fruit variant> as listed in some recipe.

And being all-vegetarian didn't work out very well for my health, to be honest. I actually felt worse even after 1 to 2 months of keeping to it and fell into months-long depression as I got very light-headed(I did have good amt of carbos though and tried to eat from all the different colour groups of veggies and fruits).

And my parents: well... they're not allowed to eat too much protein from these groups: fish, meat or plant. Something to do with being diabetic and their bodies converting protein into sugar-form.

Besides, I've realised that what our ancestors ate, plays an important role in what we should eat to avoid disease and transmission of virii and other things, or even passing <conditions for fulfilling a symptom of illness> to our children(if we ever have any). I sound probably preachy or even racist but then again... ever wonder why some <ethnic> or <racial> have trouble handling certain protein and chemical compounds? There you have it: 'cos their ancestors didn't eat <said food>, so their bodies often have troubles adapting and they become very sickly when eating it while others do fine.

Of course, this is over-simplifying the issue since genes and other things, probably do play a role in how we handle food.

Btw, I know lots of vegetarians or even vegans love tofu. Here's some advice: try not to eat too much of it and most soy products too. Many of the elderly in Singapore and other parts of Asia suffer from dementia and Alzheimer's due to heavy reliant on soy in their diets. I too... used to have memory problems and have always wondered if this was a side effect of soy and tofu(taking it almost every day). The best is fermented soy... I can't recall why but the fermentation has got something to do with breaking down of the "toxic components" in soya beans.

[cleglaw]

May 18, 2009 2:45:50 GMT The Sonar Chicken said:

Btw, I know lots of vegetarians or even vegans love tofu. Here's some advice: try not to eat too much of it and most soy products too. Many of the elderly in Singapore and other parts of Asia suffer from dementia and Alzheimer's due to heavy reliant on soy in their diets. I too... used to have memory problems and have always wondered if this was a side effect of soy and tofu(taking it almost every day). The best is fermented soy... I can't recall why but the fermentation has got something to do with breaking down of the "toxic components" in soya beans.

My 1st reaction: I work in several nursing homes in Texas with a high incidence of Alzheimer's and senile dementia. This is Texas, a state with a heavy meat diet. The nursing home residents have never tasted tofu in their life, and have not been consumers of soy products.

So I did some internet research. A suggested link between soy and Alzheimers disease is based upon one study in Hawaii. I have not been able to find the original study to see what it actually shows and how well it is controlled. The people who tout it, the Weston A. Price Foundation, seem to have an agenda which includes the promotion of the consumption of milk products. I did see one article which pointed out some flaws in the study which lacks controls over confounding variables.

Yet a different study examined soy as a potential treatment:

phosphatidylserine derived from soy may be a potential treatment. A report was published in 2000 about a clinical trial with 18 participants with age-associated memory impairment who were treated with phosphatidylserine. The authors concluded that the results were encouraging but that there would need to be large carefully controlled trials to determine if this could be a viable treatment.

A scholarly review of the epidemiology Of Alzheimer's Disease states

Genetic, behavioral, and environmental risk factors all appear to contribute to the multifactorial etiopathogenesis of AD[5-7]:

* Age;
* Genetic factors, with a 40% concordance between identical twins[6,8];
* APOE4 genotype: increased risk but only incomplete association;
* Ethnicity: Latinos appear to develop AD almost 7 years earlier on average than non-Latino Americans; African Americans show a 2- to 3-fold higher incidence rate, and thus higher prevalence[9,10];
* Cardiovascular risk factors: heart disease, high cholesterol levels, high blood pressure, and stroke (hypooxygenation of the brain); and
* Lower education (even among subjects with very similar genetic predispositions to intellectual achievement, such as identical twins).[11]

So, when I look at the whole picture, it does not seem that any link has currently been established between soy products and dementia or Alzheimer's.

[fughawzi]

Oh god, the Price Foundation. I remember that study! I think the companies there also added some sort of chemical that most places don't.

I have had issues with soy most of my life and have developed an intolerance to it yet again (Along with gluten, oh joy), so I tend to avoid it except for special occasions. I also know it isn't good to consume too much when you have a thyroid problem so..yes.. Tempeh and miso are so good!

May 18, 2009 2:45:50 GMT The Sonar Chicken said:

And being all-vegetarian didn't work out very well for my health, to be honest. I actually felt worse even after 1 to 2 months of keeping to it and fell into months-long depression as I got very light-headed(I did have good amt of carbos though and tried to eat from all the different colour groups of veggies and fruits).

Were you getting your b12? Most people who get that sort of reaction were not consuming b12.

Cleglaw - Have you ever been on theppk.com forums? They have great recipes and information, if you're interested. Not everyone is vegan, but they keep the recipes that way. Do you have any favourite cookbooks? I'm trying to help Joe pick a couple to start off with but I only know vegan ones (Was such a junk food vegetarian).

[kitty]

Alright alright, I meant with my little comment (thats also for Eli) that I think praising in a way of "my eating habit is better and greater than yours!" could easily give people the impression that they are doing something wrong. We had the topic of EDs in the other thread, if I would say "being super anorexic skinny is better than being normal weight!" without any warning, it could encourage people to feel bad too... but whatever, if Elis ok with it, I shut up.

@ cleg - I wasn´t trying to make anyone defend anything, I was interested. But I see that isn´t welcomed.

[fughawzi]

May 18, 2009 8:11:27 GMT kitty said:

@ cleg - I wasn´t trying to make anyone defend anything, I was interested. But I see that isn´t welcomed.

That is completely welcome. I'm fine answering any questions people have if they are genuinely interested and even sometimes if they aren't depending on my mood. But you just made statements that were really odd and more attack-like rather than interested. It was mostly "I don't agree, this is wrong, not clever.."

If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. That goes for anyone. I will happily explain why I'm vegan and any issues that go along with that, just please don't only make statements. Vegetarians and vegans especially get a lot of silly things thrown their way and it is really aggravating sometimes. I can guarantee you, Cleglaw and I have heard every joke and argument against our lifestyle, just remember that.

[Elliot Kane]

I'm far from a vegetarian myself (Probably find it easier to be a pure carnivore, in fact) but being a vegan doesn't hurt anyone as long as they eat responsibly.

I like the idea of this forum being used to make sure vegans get a properly balanced diet so they don't hurt themselves. It's a good use of it.

Doesn't mean I'd ever want to be a vegan myself

[Lews]

First: I <3 Tofu!

Second: Being a vegetarian and cutting out meat has not had a single negative effect on my health. I'm still working on eating more healthy foods and less junk foods, which fughawzi is definitely helping me towards, and yeah I'm hoping to get some cookbooks soon, unfortunately I have very little experience cooking ANYTHING. Any suggestions you have at all cleglaw would be greatly appreciated.

Third: Kitty... this thread is not about putting anyone down at all. Please don't try to suggest that. No one here is saying they are better or greater than anyone, we're just talking about why we eat the way we do and how it makes us happy. It has nothing to do with you at all, so please don't try to make us feel bad about it. It's about us being happy, not putting you down. If you aren't vegetarian or vegan you don't need to come into this thread. For us it is more of a celebration and meeting other people who feel similar. You are welcome to make comments, criticisms, questions, whatever, but don't make us feel bad about it. You are criticizing us for something that makes us happy, and you are doing it in a really insulting way. This thread is in no way an insult to anyone and I'd really appreciate if you didn't try to make a new forum member, who happens to be my best friend, feel bad about something that makes her happy. Thanks.

Deciding to become a vegetarian is one of the best decisions I have made in my life. It makes me happy to eat, happy to see animals, and happy to know that I'm not hurting things for no reason at all. There has not been a single day that I have regretted it or a single downside to it. It makes me extremely happy and I love it.

[Elliot Kane]

And that's quite enough about Kitty, too. As the moderator for this section, she is totally right to read the thread. She just misinterpreted the rules a little, which is always a hazard for anyone who didn't write them.

Let's all move on, shall we?

[fughawzi]

May 18, 2009 8:34:16 GMT Elliot Kane said:

I'm far from a vegetarian myself (Probably find it easier to be a pure carnivore, in fact) but being a vegan doesn't hurt anyone as long as they eat responsibly.

I like the idea of this forum being used to make sure vegans get a properly balanced diet so they don't hurt themselves. It's a good use of it.

Doesn't mean I'd ever want to be a vegan myself

Really? No fruit? I could never ever do that. I love my fruits and vegetables way too much. Ignore the fact that I'm vegan when I make that statement..

Yeah, if anyone needs any nutrition related advice concerning a vegetarian or vegan diet, I'm here. I know more than most of my doctors and it is really quite sad. I could gross you out with the some of the things I eat - Ever tried a green smoothie? Mm, spinach and kale! Haha.

But there are also yummy vegan cakes!





I need to find people to give cakes to so I can bake more.

Haha, Joe. I remember when you said you could be vegetarian so long as you could have steak occasionally.


[Ahem, I need to sleep more before I attempt typing]

[Galadriel]

I have tried to live as a veggie, but sadly it didn't work out as well as I'd hoped for. I don't have the budget to buy veggie food, it's still quite expensive in Belgium. And I don't have the time to prepare it myself either. I got way to skinny and had to adjust my diet again.
Now I feel much better, with a little bit of meat now and then. I still try to buy my meat in stores that guarantee me that the chickens lived in an open area, not in cages and fed 'till they got fat enough to be slaughtered. I eat a lot of nuts and seeds as well, especially sunflower seeds and healthy snacks that contain corn and wheat.
I have a deep respect for veggies and vegans, everyone who's saving an animal deserves the greatest respect!