The Dream Inside The Dream

[killerzzz]

Yeah, it happens to many of us.

You fall asleep, you have a dream. Your dream does its thing, then you wake up. And then something crazy happens and you find out that you just 'woke up' into ANOTHER dream and then you wake up AGAIN!

Well, last night something happened that took it to the next level.

I went to sleep. I had a dream about visiting family and playing video-games (Mortal Kombat or Resident Evil, or some dream-blend of the two). Pretty believable situation. I thought I was awake. Of course, since it was a dream, I didn't notice that the house was actually based on a friend's house and not the family member's house.

So for some reason we're pulling an all-nighter (in the dream), and I start drifting off into sleep (in the dream that feels like I'm awake). I'm dozing, play a bit more, then put down the remote and go to sleep. I have a crazy-as-crap nightmare. Like, psychedelic drug crazy. Something about plants that are alive, and alien-like, and essentially being in a hell-like place, except its full of those weird thorny plants that are meant to frighten and torment you for eternity, and there is not escape, and they'll find you.

Well, I find the apparently impossible-to-find way out, and let me tell you, I'm darn relieved that I'm not going to be tormented by plant-hell for all eternity. Then this guy shows up and he's all "yo, you're not out, you're just in a place that looks like you're out, but really every door from here is connected to that hell, ur just in the middle, and you're never getting out." So I panic for a bit, then wake up screaming in a room other than where I was before.

Its dark, and I'm runnin through the house, and things start looking familiar. I realized that I'm awake now and that I'd sleepwalked into other room while acid-trip-dreaming. So the family wakes up, and I'm all "aw crap, sorry about the ruckus." ...

AND THEN it dawns on me that this house isn't the right house and that I'm still in the FIRST DREAM and THEN I wake up AGAIN, and it was morning.

Also, I don't sleepwalk, or even stir in my bed when I sleep.

As usual, the elaborate quality of dreams has amazed me. What I mean is, dreams are made up from memories and thoughts (usually recent ones dominate the dream, and past ones back it up). I recently visited that friend whose house was in the dream, and therefore it was chosen as a setting. But the amazing part is that the nightmare WITHIN the dream chose aspects from the video-game in the dream (completely made up stuff -- the plants in the nightmare were part of the environment of the game in the dream) and applied them as if they were REAL-LIFE recent memories!!!

I'm sorry, dreams fascinate me. They are just so complex and intriguing!

Killerzzz

[Elliot Kane]

Yours certainly are, Kaz! I'd almost be envious, except for the whole 'killer plants in Hell' part ;D

I tend to be just slightly more able in my dreams than in my normal life. I'll give you my favourite example: a dream I had some years ago, now, but which I still remember well as it was so intriguing:

I was back in the Elizabethan era, at a port of some kind. Moored in the bay was a pirate ship and I knew that on that ship was imprisoned the woman who would be the love of my life. I had no idea what she LOOKED like (Annoyingly normal for my dreams) but I knew that I had to rescue her...

So off I went towards the ship, only to run into the ship's crew in the street (Nice wide street luckily, as there were a lot of them). They knew who I was and that I was going to rescue the girl (Don't ask me how they knew - dream logic!) so of course we all drew swords...

Me vrs several hundred pirates is not usually much of a contest in my dreams, but these guys were good and I actually got wounded quite badly before I killed them all (Yes, single-handedly). So I limped onto the pirate ship, where only the pirate captain and the girl awaited. I was really feeling the injuries but I had to save the girl, so I kept on.

I got to the cabin door, braced myself for the fight of my life (And also the love of my life - the good part! ;D), kicked the door open - and woke up!

Didn't even get to see the girl! That was so depressing! ;D

***

I'm the sort of person who dreams about being chased and running... until I find a big weapon with which to turn around and beat crud out of whatever was chasing me. My dreams are fun ;D

The ones that aren't about class rooms or journeying, at least.

[killerzzz]

I get a lot of those hellish ones. ;D

Yeah, those damn dreams always stop right before the good part!

For example, in one I was given a slurpee/icee/slush-puppy (or w/e you want to call it) that was supposed to have the perfect flavour. Of course, I woke up just before I got a sip.

Although my dreams are mostly composed of terrifying hellish nightmares that scar me for life, as well as others I like to call "anxiety dreams" (you're late for class/work/appointment, you're lost, you forgot to do something, you missed something amazing, etc), I do sometimes have fun dreams where I get to be more than I am. And they are freaking awesome!

Its funny you should mention pirates. Had one where I had to fight some right in my town. ;D There were too many though, so I flew away. >_>

Or ones where you can breathe under water while swimming!

One of my favorites had a pretty complex plot and action scene.

So I'm one of a group of outcasts in a somewhat distopian future, where some people have been altered by black-magic/science experiments and fused with demonic elemental powers (and hunted down by society: I'm in a shack with two others). So I'm fused with a fire-demon's powers. We get ambushed by monsters, needless to say the shack gets effed up, and we kick ass.

We bounce. It's night. Walking along the street in the city, we pass a car repair shop. I notice some mists entering the engine of a nearby car and know that its being possessed by an enslaved sacrificed spirit from an evil ritual (kinda like T3 with ghosts ). So I side-step it when it makes one run at me. When it comes around for a second go, I stand my ground and when it hits me I SUPLEX THE CAR. Winner = me.

So in retaliation another spirit possesses a semi. Yeah, won't be able to block that. And it decides, instead of attacking us (its not very dexterous), its going to ram into a building full of innocents (day is dawning, people are out). Its several blocks away, so its speeding off and we gotta stop it. As strong as we are, beating at a full-speed possessed semi proves to not do much. So, hopping across rooftops after the semi, I get a great idea. Imma kill this thing. I pull out a nice big wooden telephone pole, catch up to the truck, and shove that mofo in its motor. It only breaks the entrance of the building. Luckily people didn't see me in all that chaos (at least, keep track of who was jumping down with a big pole). So I can creep off nice and safely, and society won't come after me with pitchforks this time.

Then I woke up. ;D

I know someone who as soon as they realize they're in a dream, they can take control, like a god in their own little world. I was never able to do that. If things are going to go badly, they're going to go badly. And vice versa. And if I realize I'm in a dream... things go badly.

Killerzzz

[Elliot Kane]

Ah, lucid dreaming. I've always envied that. I'm like a one-man army when I have NO control. Given control... ;D

But ya know what? With control, I might actually get to see the blasted girl's face for once and that'd be worth more than anything else!

[Galadriel]

Dreams have a meaning, for example, and this is a very clear example if your blatter is full while you're sleeping, you will dream of looking for a bathroom.
There was a period when I kept having the same dream over and over and it didn't had to do with my blatter really ;D I was trying to reach a bathroom, but there was always something coming up, like the bathroom was closed and i had no key, or the hall where the bathroom door was, kept getting longer as i was walking through it.
Another dream that kept coming back was it was raining in my bedroom, but i wasn't in my bed, but lived in a tiny place, where it was cold and windy, and the rain kept pouring out the walls and the roof.
After a while I moved to my own place and the dreams stopped. I was looking for my own place, where i could find piece of mind.

Let me see if i can explain your dreams (IMHO):
If you ask me, the dream EK is having, might mean he's looking for something, but he needs that little extra push to find it.

A dream inside another dream could just be the process of your brain working out the different themes that happened in a period of days, but your brain didn't had the time to process them yet.

Also the more details you remember from a dream, the more you can explain it. Even if it's a small thing like a sofa or a smoking pipe.

Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Alfred Adler and Frederick Perls are famous dream theorists. Though I don't agree much with Freuds opinions ;D

[Elliot Kane]

Heh. My dream means that my ultimate goal is finding Miss Right and, whatever damage I take on the road, I'll keep on going till I find her, Gal. And not all the world in arms will stop me seeking. Also that finding her is a long hard road, filled with pain.

I know exactly what it means already, thanks I'm pretty good at this dream interpretation lark

I know what all the classroom and traveling dreams are about, too

Nice try, though

[LaFille]

Jun 13, 2009 9:09:47 GMT killerzzz said:

Well, I find the apparently impossible-to-find way out, and let me tell you, I'm darn relieved that I'm not going to be tormented by plant-hell for all eternity. Then this guy shows up and he's all "yo, you're not out, you're just in a place that looks like you're out, but really every door from here is connected to that hell, ur just in the middle, and you're never getting out." So I panic for a bit, then wake up screaming in a room other than where I was before.

Lol, that reminded me of the movie What Dreams May Come.

[killerzzz]

@gal
Oh, those things are always interesting. ;D
And I agree with what you said about Freud. In fact, I'm often pretty anti-Freudian now that I think of it.

But I have my own school of though on dreams and their meanings. Not sure whose theories this might line up with, as I've only glance at a few official thoughts on it myself.

Dreams are purely emotional and creative, springing to life from pieces of memories. Immediate/recent memories and emotions often take the front while past experiences back them up.

The main essence of dreams are emotions. Fear before sleep leads to nightmares, anxiety to my above-described anxiety dreams, anger and lust to chaotic and hazy dreams, happiness to guess-what, etc. ;D

The emotions gain context and tangibility from memory (and I should also say sensory input). Scared and thinking about Frankenstein getting you? Well, you're dreams may vary well reflect that. Visit someone or do something recently? Pieces of those experiences will likely be in there somewhere. Sleeping on your arm? You're stuck in a closet in your dream with your arm behind your back. Hear a banging? Smell cookies? Someone has baked you something in the dream and there's construction outside or something (in the dream).

Any gaps will be filled by past emotions/memories/sensory input, and maybe new cases and extremes will be calculated and created from estimations based on what the brain already knows. For example, I'm quite sure the most pain I've ever felt was in a dream.

Jun 14, 2009 23:01:48 GMT LaFille said:

Lol, that reminded me of the movie What Dreams May Come.

Ooo! Thanks for reminding me, I've been trying to get myself to rent that movie for months. It looks so interesting!

Killerzzz

[Flix]

There are few words to describe the awe and joy at becoming lucid during a vivid dream.

Killerzzz, there are ways to cultivate lucid dreaming, especially since you already seem to have good vivid dream recall. The first idea is to start recording your dreams so until you can make a small list of signs, images, scenarios, or motifs that are common in you dreams - "dream signs." When you're able to recognize them as such they will tip you off while dreaming that you're asleep. There are other sure-fire ways to check if you're dreaming: read a digital clock or some kind of text, then look away and then back again: the numbers and words are unstable and will change and morph. You can also look at your hands: your fingers will change numbers, you almost never have five on each hand. Also, light switches never work in dreams. You can try jumping and if you fall down to earth just a little too slow, you know you can now fly.

The more you think about consciousness, awareness, and the possibilty of dreaming (testing reality) while you're awake, the more likely you are to do so while asleep.

EK, it's not as hard to acheive as you might think. One great method is to wake up and then go back to sleep 30 minutes later (not a luxury most of us have often, but still...). Naps are great for this. You'll also notice most of your most vivid (and lucid) dreams come at the end of your sleep, because the longer you sleep, the more your body stays in REM sleep, and thus closer to consciousness.

It is even possible during this time to hold on consciousness as you fall asleep, thus remaining lucid the entire time from waking to dreaming (this is the lotus and flame technique of Tibetan yogis). You feel yourself falling asleep, your body falling into the grip of sleep paralysis (which can be scary if you don't know what it is), then BAM! in the dreamworld. I only acheived lucidity this way once.

Lucidity can be partial though, meaning that you can be aware but unable to take full control or make things happen at your will. I almost prefer this semi-lucid state; if I can just maintain awareness but let my right-brain or unconscious mind guide the scenarios and actions of people, etc., just exercising enough control to guide my own actions and path. When I try to dominate my dream, people and scenes often fall flat and lifeless, and the dreamworld can feel empty because I know I'm the only real thing there.

False awakenings like Killerzzz described are the big pitfall of lucid dreaming: you realize you're dreaming and it's almost like the brain fights against that awareness and changes the channel to put you back in normal dreaming. Luckily, I usually catch the false awakening because I always write down lucid dreams, and if I "wake up" and find that my words are changing and slithering around on the page...well I didn't really wake up at all!

Oh, and just my opinion, but I wouldn't put much stock in any dream interpretation theories - other than your own, of course. You can describe scenes and images and words from your dreams with all kinds of detail but no one will understand the meaning better than you.

I HIGHLY recommend Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen LaBerge. There's no phony interpretations and pop dream psychology here (no offense), just methods for inducing and maintaining lucid dreams and suggestions for cultivating a richer life though them. LaBerge was one of the first to scientifically prove lucid dreaming.

I might add more later- I could probably write a small book on this. I'll leave out my own dreams, unless anyone's interested. I suspect they won't be much more interesting to you all than other people's dreams are to me (but who knows? maybe we need a dreams thread).

[Elliot Kane]

Interpreting dreams is something of an art form and not easy for anyone who does not know the dreamer well.

I started writing an article about it once, then realised it would be vastly too long and junked it.

Bottom line is, dreams are either detritus from the day's events or symbols of things in our lives. But all symbols depend on interpretation for their meaning, and all dreamers are unique individuals...

So it's really a giant guessing game until you get what the dreamer feels might be right.

[SPS]

The dream I had last night was fairly interesting...

It started out where I was in a high school, talking to a random person about a girl they're attracted to, I see the girl and then follow them. Then I decide I have to take a dump, so I find a bathroom with an open wall, I.E people can see me use the rest room, so I sit down and eat a bagel while taking a dump (don't ask), and of course randomly the room accross the hall is also missing a wall and the people are laughing at me. So then I check a random poster and I notice one name Khayless (possibly the name of the school, my mind likes to make up random things like that). Also the students look awfully young for high schoolers. So I walk to the office, and the guidance counselor meets me there to tell me to follow him. I do and we sit down. We talk and I find out for some reason I have to repeat the entire 7th grade (even though in my dream I said I just needed to retake a science course) because of the way I acted. Then my brother walks in looking younger than I remember, and he starts serving as a concience, asking are you sure you won't act this way? The counselor is also doubtful. I just close my eyes and start shaking my head saying, no I wont act that way anymore, and I force myself to wake up.

I usually have some sort of physical sensation in my dreams like the feeling of saliva, or yelling, there was even one time I had a dream about zombies and I could feel one of their hand's around my neck.

[SPS]

here is a decent website I know about dreams, it even has a dream dictionary:

dream moods

[LaFille]

Jun 15, 2009 0:08:08 GMT killerzzz said:

Jun 14, 2009 23:01:48 GMT LaFille said:

Lol, that reminded me of the movie What Dreams May Come.

Ooo! Thanks for reminding me, I've been trying to get myself to rent that movie for months. It looks so interesting!

It's a good movie; nice story with the coolest sceneries.

[Hildor]

What I find most disturbing is a dream coming to life in a dream (isn't that a double negative). Everything just feels perfect and then SNAP awake and back into reality. Quite bugging me you dreams!

[Galadriel]

I sometimes dream about stuff that looks soo real that it takes me a few moments to realise it's not real when i wake up. Like that time when I dreamed I kinda wrecked my bf's car and I had to figure out a way to tell him that ;D

[The Sonar Chicken]

Interesting dreams some of you have. Hmmm... I rarely remember my dreams.

Also, as with all of my thoughts, daydreams and dreams, I can rarely "see images" but instead, my dreams come in ideas/words, feelings, atmosphere, etc. which I can feel, hear, etc. If I "see", they're usually words and rarely images. And often, my images are faint and not too clear, either.

[Flix]

I'm just the opposite - my dreams are extremely vivid every night. Unless I take something to help me sleep, I always have intricate plots, characters, adventures, and a lot of really poignant emotions.

When I was really practicing lucid dreaming, sleep to me was basically this alternate reality that I could go to explore and feel and learn. Many of my biggest emotional accomplishments - coming to terms with my grandfather's death, with lost loves, and even the inevitability of my own death - came to me not during waking life but during lucid dreams.

Funny that I should shamble through so much of my waking life like a zombie and then come to life in my dreams.

[Flix]

And this is interesting as well... experienced oneironauts (lucid dreamers) can set and focus their intention to perform a certain activity or encounter a certain situation before they go to sleep...and then they can practice a certain skill or rehearse a meeting or performance in their dream. The neural pathways are actually strengthened as if the activity were being performed. A baseball pitcher might perfect his curveball, a pianist might practice a challenging piece of music, a business person might rehearse an important presentation.

LaBerge's book is full of accounts like this. I tried it out for a time...my idea was to practice guitar in my dreams, because occasionally I find myself playing in dreams anyway. The problem was, I was successful at getting my guitar to show up in my dreams, but it wouldn't tip me off that I was dreaming.

Like this one time, I was in this dream where I was caught up in some kind of street war between cops and the mob. There were guns firing, and I was crawling around in the New York streets trying not to get shot, as the rain was pouring down, holding my electric guitar in my hand, pissed that I had brought it with me in such a life or death situation. Completely clueless that my intention was to become lucid and practice the damn thing.

[LaFille]

Well, at least an electric guitar offers a slightly better bullet protection than an acoustic one!

[killerzzz]

Flix
Hmmm, I dunno, I kinda like uncontrolled dreaming. It seems that the lack of control allows for some insane stuff that I wouldn't even imagine in waking life can happen. My imagination is run with no limits, whether I like it or not. Also, I probably wouldn't have as terrifying nightmares on my own: they say that if you punch yourself, its not as hard as if you're punching someone/something else. Self-defensive reflexes. I kinda just like to enjoy the ride... or be traumatized by it, but I guess I just like the pain.

But I am interested in all that. Is the main key to lucid dreaming to be aware of the fact that you are dreaming? Because in my case, that never seems to help. When I become aware of my dream, it becomes aware of me... and FIGHTS BACK!

@gal
Yeah, don't ya just hate it when dreams happen that feel so real, that when you remember them later its hard to distinguish them from old memories? It can be troublesome. ;D

Like this one time, I was in this dream where I was caught up in some kind of street war between cops and the mob. There were guns firing, and I was crawling around in the New York streets trying not to get shot, as the rain was pouring down, holding my electric guitar in my hand, pissed that I had brought it with me in such a life or death situation. Completely clueless that my intention was to become lucid and practice the damn thing.

El Mariachi! ;D


Killerzzz