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Post by Glance A'Lot on Aug 12, 2009 23:22:30 GMT
Ah - Robert Asprin really created another fine myth...  I loved his 'quotes' at the beginning of each chapter, like: "In times of crisis it is of the utmost importance not to lose one's head" (Marie Antoinette de France) or "The key to safe and speedy travel is careful planning" (Ulysses) |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 12, 2009 23:24:21 GMT
Yes. Most of those made me smile  *** I think we may need another thread entirely for some of the SF/Fantasy blends... |
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Post by Flix on Aug 14, 2009 1:10:08 GMT
Some of my favorites that I haven"t seen mentioned:
Tales of Alvin Maker - Orson Scott Card: 6 book series set in a reimagined 1800's America where folk magic and superstition work and where Native American shaman magic is real. The best thing Card ever wrote IMO.
The Last Wish - Andrzej Sapkowski: The basis of the Witcher game, but with much, much better writing. He weaves in and reworks some classic fairy tale motifs.
The Redemption of Althalus - David & Leigh Eddings: Follows the same formula as all the other Eddings series, but tells a story within one good novel instead of several mediocre ones (Belgariad, Mallorean, etc.). He also abandons the tired, boy-turned-magic-hero in favor of an anti-hero.
In the Land of Time, The King of Elfland's Daughter - Lord Dunsany: Fantasy did indeed exist before Tolkien
A Song of Fire and Ice - George R. R. Martin: Grim and gritty, full of plotting and intrigue, loosely based on the War of the Roses
The Riftwar Saga, Faerie Tale - Raymond Feist: The Riftwar Saga still holds up pretty well, even though it happily embraces all the fantasy cliches pretty well, it offers up some really excellent moments and characters. Faerie Tale is much more original and plays off a lot of Celtic mythology in a more contemporary setting.
American Gods - Neil Gaiman: Very original and badass.
The Hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien (I prefer this to the L.o.t.R., so shoot me).
These are more for young adults, but still excellent nevertheless:
The Dark is Rising - Susan Cooper: Lots of British and Welsh mythology. Surprisingly bleak at times for a series for younger readers - very good.
The Once and Future King - T.H. White: The best modern retelling of the legend of King Arthur in literature
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Post by Flix on Nov 3, 2009 1:32:35 GMT
I took some of your suggestions to heart, EK.
I just ordered, dirt cheap from Amazon:
1.The Elric Saga, Part 1: Elric of Melnigone, The Sailor on the Seas of Fate & The Weird of the White Woolf
2.Lord Foul's Bane (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, Book 1)
3.Legend (Drenai Tales, Book 1)
4.The First Swords: The Book of Swords Volumes 1, 2, & 3
They should be in this week. We'll see just how good they are!!
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 3, 2009 1:59:03 GMT
Cool. I look forward to hearing what you think of them all, Flix |
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Post by Flix on Nov 13, 2009 22:14:08 GMT
Well, I finished Legend the other day, read it almost in one long sitting. Hot damn! That was a good book! I really didn't know if they would hold the Dros or not. Druss the Legend is my new favorite fantasy character. In fact, all the characters were great, with a real sense of depth. The pacing was superb; when plots or intrigues were hinted at, it did not take several chapters (or books, -cough- Robert Jordan -cough-) for them to play out. Journeys that were weeks long did not actually feel like weeks worth of reading. I feel like Gemmell dropped the ball with the ending. The Sathuli tribes coming to the rescue was believable and enough of a Deus ex Machina, did we really need Druss and the others coming back as ghosts? Still that was pretty cool, I guess. My one big complaint was the romance: in love after one day? And she comes back from the dead? Killing her off was a bold move and exciting since it made Rek into the golden baresark killing machine, but then she comes back to life! All-in-all in a small stain on a great story though. I've started in on the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Wow, what a shift. Donaldson has definitely got a gift with words though. There's so much beauty and wonder in the Land and yet it all serves to make the novel that much more gloomy. Insane dream? Near-death vision? Purgatory? Real? When the girl Lena first runs up to Covenant I remember thinking, "Oh no, not again. He meets the girl first thing and by the end they're in love, just like Legend and a billion other fantasies." Wrong! I had to stop for a while after he did the...really bad thing...not like I haven't read about worse acts, but not from my protagonist. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 14, 2009 0:05:40 GMT
I'm glad you like them, Flix. I always get a bit nervous when I recommend stuff in case other people hate it. Couldn't go far wrong on any of the series I listed, IMO, but all it takes is radically differing tastes... |
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Post by Flix on Nov 20, 2009 5:15:02 GMT
Yeah, I tried to filter out just the ones that sounded interesting to me. For example, any emphasis on sci-fi/future tech stuff is a turn off, as well as "funny" fantasy. I've got to say, the likes of Pratchett and Piers Anthony are ok for maybe one book, then it gets tiresome real fast.
I'm still chugging through Lord Foul's Bane, with mixed feelings. I kind of hate Covenant while feeling really bad for him too. One gripe is that Donaldson lingers on descriptions of columns and archways and tapestries, and architecture generally too much. I like descriptions if something is beautiful or awe-inspiring, or important to the story, but geez. You also get blasted with big chunks of 'lore' without much explanation, this may be intentional to reflect Covenant's own confusion at all the history and magic and rules of the Land.
Anyway, it's great, but we'll see at the end of the book if I'm dying to continue the story.
Question about the Drenai tales: are these books a series of stand-alone novels? Druss is dead, after all, and I can't see Rek carrying a whole series.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 20, 2009 12:23:57 GMT
Most of the Drenai novels are stand alone, but there are one or two that are semi-linked, though none exactly require prior knowledge.
There are a couple of stories of Druss' youth and the three Waylander novels. The rest are very loosely linked if at all, IIRC.
Not all of Gemmell's stuff is quite on the same level, and Legend is probably his best work, but most of it is at the least very good, IMO. I'd certainly recommend the Waylander novels and The King Beyond The Gate
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Post by Gray Lensman on Nov 21, 2009 0:22:16 GMT
Really interesting to hear you say that, Flix. That was the scene when I literally threw Lord Foul's Bane across the room.  I was quite a lot younger when I read it, admittedly, and I never read it again since. But looking back on it, it says a lot for Donaldson that he was able to inspire that kind of a response from me. While I've enjoyed more than my share of anti-heroes, Covenant lost all sympathy with me halfway in because of what he does to Lena. I absolutely, deeply, and thoroughly hated Thomas Covenant beyond any hope of redemption because of that one act. That, and Covenant's constant whining, rationalizations and self-victimizing behavior irritated the heck out of me. Looking back on it today, I don't really hate Donaldson's work for this. I actually was engaged into the book otherwise. It might just be that I was never going to be his target audience. I like reading about heroes (or failed people trying to be heroic), and Covenant is every inch a villainous protagonist. All the same, Lord Foul's Bane holds the dubious distinction of being the only book I have ever literally thrown out of sheer disgust. I've not read anything by Donaldson since. Just goes to show how important having sympathetic characters can be, I guess. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 21, 2009 0:52:51 GMT
I think the whole point with Covenant is that he is NO kind of hero, honestly, be it true or anti-. He's just a guy who's been thrown into a situation he can't handle and has no skills to deal with. And then been hailed as the Messiah. He's a very broken human being and not just because of his leprosy. He does horrible things and stupid things and yet Donaldson manages to carry the audience (Not just me, either - this was a very popular series back in the day!) through.
It has much to recommend it, but like many of the books on my list could never be described as High Fantasy...
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 21, 2009 1:07:03 GMT
While I remember, Steve, you might like Brian Lumley's Hero Of Dreams series, which is set in Lovecraft's Dreamlands and features the adventures of David Hero - 'Hero of Dreams' and his friend and companion Eldin The Wanderer. I'd probably describe it as Middle Fantasy, in that it's neither particularly light nor dark.
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Post by Gray Lensman on Nov 21, 2009 1:08:44 GMT
To be honest, I think Covenant is more sick inside than anything his leprosy could ever do to him. And not just morally... anybody in his situation would have at least some issues. But yeah, I grant the point. It could well be that the situation is one of "with great power comes great corruption". Maybe I'm the only one who hated the protagonist to the point I found the book (for all its craft) unreadable. Somehow it wouldn't surprise me a whole lot. ;D |
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Post by Gray Lensman on Nov 21, 2009 1:09:53 GMT
As for Lumley... hmm, sounds interesting. Sounds like another book to look into when I have the opportunity. |
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Post by Flix on Nov 24, 2009 7:34:33 GMT
Lensman: Did you finish Lord Foul's Bane? That scene happens pretty early on, and he does suffer crushing guilt later when he realizes he might not be dreaming.
I finished it tonight, and I was definitely satisfied. Somehow I sustained my sympathy for him throughout the novel.
I'll wait a bit before continuing the Chronicles though. I think the Elric saga will be next.
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Post by Gray Lensman on Nov 24, 2009 16:16:48 GMT
Congrats for finishing it, Flix. You have a much higher tolerance than I did, to be sure. No, I wasn't able to bring myself to finish it, regrettably. I'd just hated the character too much by that point to continue reading, and later on, I'd moved on to other things. It may be worth taking a look back at Donaldson at some point, though, if only to see whether time would change my perspective of it... but I'm not sure. I will say it would take an awful lot to redeem Covenant in my eyes after what he did, but it may be that Donaldson manages it somehow for all I know. Elric is a good call, though. The early books are generally fairly short reads, and even now, they still hold up pretty well. Moorcock built a very complex universe, but Elric may be one of the easiest gateways into it. |
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Post by Flix on Nov 24, 2009 21:50:03 GMT
Last night I dreamt I had leprosy, I was afflicted with it in exchange for god-like guitar playing skills. Some dark lord wanted me to make 3 wishes, I had made the first 2, then turned against him.
Yeah, I know a fantasy has made its mark when I start dreaming it.
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Post by Flix on Nov 29, 2009 5:02:58 GMT
Finished Lord Foul's Bane. I'll definitely be finishing the Chronicles, or at least the original trilogy.
Moved on to the Elric saga. Another complete shift! Once I adjusted to Moorcock's tone I was completely absorbed. I have the first three books in one volume (quick reads indeed!) and am currently working my way through The Sailor on the Seas of Fate. Great stuff.
So far I'm not sure if any of these have displaced my 3 top fantasy picks - Tales of Alvin Maker, Song of Fire and Ice, and Wheel of Time, but Legend comes close.
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Post by Gray Lensman on Nov 29, 2009 5:15:53 GMT
Glad you're enjoying Elric so far, Flix. Sailor is indeed a pretty enjoyable read, and I find it's pretty easy to get into even with the crossovers with the other incarnations of the Eternal Champion early on in the book. Third book starts getting darker, if I remember right, but they're still classic "weird adventure" tales until about Stormbringer or so. Elric's probably one of the characters I enjoy the most, though these are still pretty early stories in the Moorcock mythos. |
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Post by Flix on Nov 29, 2009 12:32:12 GMT
Glad you're enjoying Elric so far, Flix. Sailor is indeed a pretty enjoyable read, and I find it's pretty easy to get into even with the crossovers with the other incarnations of the Eternal Champion early on in the book. Third book starts getting darker, if I remember right, but they're still classic "weird adventure" tales until about Stormbringer or so. Elric's probably one of the characters I enjoy the most, though these are still pretty early stories in the Moorcock mythos. You speak as if these things are a hindrance to enjoyment, but they make it all the richer by hinting at the vastness of Moorcock's universe(s)!. So I take it I may encounter Ererkose, Corum, or Hawkmoon elsewhere? Exciting. I like big, interwoven mythologies. |
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