Fantasy

[Ubereil]

Me and Elliot got into the subject of Fantasy yesterday in chat. And I figured the subject would be easier to discuss in this forum rather than in chat, especially since both of us basicly spammed books we've read... ;D

The reason we started the discussion was that I'm rereading The Weel of Time (again) and it seems I've finally found the joy in reading I lost a while ago. It appears I still love fantasy!

As for Fantasy I've read, here's a list (books that's not part of a series in parethesis):
The Weel of Time by Robert Jordan (twice, once in Swedish, once in English).

The Belgariad series, The Malloreon series, The Elenium series, The Tamuli series (and The Redemtion of Altharus), all by David Eddings.

Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn (and The War of the Flowers) by Tad Williams.
An awful lot of Deverry novels (12 or something) by Katharine Kerr.
Mordant's Need by Stephen R. Donaldson.
The Farseer Trilogy and the Liveship Traders Trilogy by Robin Hobb.
The Song of Albion by Stephen R. Lawhead.
(A bunch of Terry Pratchett books, of course.)
(The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Along with a bunch of books that are more historical fiction than fantasy.)
I started reading a Terry Brooks serie but I couldn't get through it and stopped three or four books in.
Same went for The Lord of the Rings, I started, got quite a bit but never got through it.

Plus one or two series I've missed, probably. ;D

Übereil

[Elliot Kane]

Well, I'm certainly not going to list all the Fantasy novels I've read! I'd be typing for the next couple of days at least! I'll add a few recommendations to the list when I have time, though - including why I think they are so good

[Elliot Kane]

Alrighty, rather than just list the famous stuff you all probably know, I'm going to try for 'Elliot's Top Ten Great Series You Have Never Heard Of'. Some of these are really old, some are very new - all are excellent:

Where possible, I'll give series titles rather than the titles of individual novels. I probably won't repeat authors, either.

1. The Great Game by Dave Duncan. At the start of WW1, our young hero finds himself framed for murder after an attempt is made on his life. His life swiftly unravels as he finds out that the assassin is from another world - where he is a prophesied messiah who will "bring death to Death!" A prophecy the local death god is VERY unhappy about...

2. The Flat Earth by Tanith Lee. At the dawn of Earth history, when the world is a dish shape rather than the sphere we know today, the greatest power was Azhrarn, prince of Demons, whose capricious nature was unmatched and whose playthings were mortals...

3. The Books Of Swords by Fred Saberhagen. In a post-apocalyptic world where magic reigns, the gods play with the lives of men. They force the god of smiths to create a set of 12 swords with which to further the games they play with the lives of men, but there is one small drawback: the smith does his work too well and creates swords that can kill the gods themselves...

4. The Videssos Cycle by Harry Turtledove. A maniple of the Roman legions serving in Gaul under Julius Caesar are transported by magic to another world. Fortunately for them, they land in an empire under siege that is in desperate need of mercenaries - and which has never seen anything like the Roman infantry before!

5. Spellsinger by Alan Dean Foster. Imagine Narnia if all the animals really acted like people instead of being all sweet and kind and noble. The wizard Clothahump seeks an alien mage to help him and finds a person whose consciousness is clearly at a heightened level - at least until the stuff he was smoking wears off! Bit tough to be a college student from the USA expecting to be hallucinating to get woken up by a talking otter with sword in hand, right?

***

Continued in next post.

Oh yeah, please note that NONE of these series are intended for a young audience. And some of those that follow are even less so ;D

[Elliot Kane]

Part 2:

6. The Horseclans by Robert Adams. Hundreds of years after the destructive war that obliterated the old world, a new and violent world has arisen. Most of the old technologies are lost and the empires that first arose from the devastation are fallen into decadence and decay. Out of the great plains come a new and more vigorous people - the Horseclans. But older menaces still await in the shadows, in the form of an ancient cult of scientists who refuse to let go of the past...

7. The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. The newest series on this list, having only come out last year. It concerns the rise of a street urchin in a world where life is abrupt, pitiless and without mercy from the depths of the gutter to the heights of the brotherhood of the most feared assassins on the planet. Feared because they are more than just assassins. They are magical adepts who never miss a target. But everything carries a price...

8. Chronicles Of An Age Of Darkness by Hugh Cook. A sometimes harrowing and sometimes hilarious series concerning the affairs of the great in a world struggling to escape from the Dark Ages. Although appearance is often everything, as the 'great' person, seen through their own eyes, often appears to be anything but! The first book is deadly serious, but after that Cook seems to find his true metiere and goes all out for humour. Incredibly funny.

9. The Banned & The Banished by James Clemens. Can the heroine stop the villain from overwhelming the world? But is that really his true goal? And why? And what will stopping him COST, both for herself and for those she loves? This series is not for the faint of heart - or the faint of stomach!

10. Hawk & Fisher by Simon R Green. You know how the City Watch always get the short end of the stick in Fantasy novels? Well, not this time. Hawk & Fisher are rather unorthodox guard captains who investigate crime, solve mysteries and put the hurt on the bad guys. They may hate the city, their bosses and often the people they are forced to protect, but they will get the job done - no matter what...

***

Again, none are meant for a younger audience. Avoid James Clemens especially unless you have a strong stomach. Although Brent Weeks and Robert Adams are not for the squeamish, I am in awe of Clemens' twisted imagination and it takes a LOT to impress me, there! You have been warned! ;D

[kitty]

The Black Magician series by Trudi Canavan - classic fanatsy. Sonea, a dwell, finds out she's a magician. (...and magicians aren't exactly loved where she comes from)

Rogue Agent series by K. E. Mills - modern fantasy. Gerald is a pro-sorcerer but s*cks at life. He takes a weird job offer and get rewarded with trouble. (think Harry Potter is finally an adult and out and about to find a bloody job)

Otherworld series by Tad Williams - SF. Technology meets superstition. (no elf or orks here)

[killerzzz]

Hmm. I like me my Sci-Fi fantasies.

-Orphans of Chaos trilogy by John C Wright: five orphans find out they are a part of something that will shake the very foundations of reality as we know it.

-Wake by Robert J. Sawyer: A modern fantasy of consciousness.

-Artemis Fowl series (6 books so far) by Eoin Colfer: A boy criminal genious in Ireland discovers the hidden existence of an ancient society of magical beings with advanced technology, and decides to take from it.

-The Dark Tower series (7 books, plus an ongoing graphic novel spin-off series from Marvel) by Stephen King: A dark epic fantasy spanning the reaches of infinite realities.

-Star Wars, Legacy of the Force series (9 books) by Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss, and Troy Denning: Han and Leia have a Jedi son who is training Luke's son. There is disagreement between Han's home world and the rest of the Alliance which may lead to war. And unknown dark forces are stirring up the chaos.

Killerzzz

[Alrik]

- "Das zerbrochene Rad" ("The broken wheel"). This is THE novel about the - so far - highest impact on Aventuria ! Written as the last work of the main inventor of The Dark Eye (TDE) itself, Ulrich Kiesow, who died only few days after finishing the book.

I don't know whether it is translated into the English language now.

[Elliot Kane]

Now I'm going to try for the slightly harder one: ten famous Fantasy series you should have heard of and should definitely read!

1. The Lord Of The Rings. Of course. The novel that started the entire modern Fantasy movement. Still unsurpassed in scope, detail and breadth of vision. This is how to make a world come to life.

2. The Lankhmar Series by Fritz Leiber. Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser are the archetypal 'realistic fantasy' heroes. Darker and more real than LoTR, the Lankhmar novels are not about heroes, yet neither are they anti-heroes. Leiber pioneered the style that moved away from the High Fantasy of Tolkien and into a more humanistic approach to characterisation.

3. The Elric Series by Michael Moorcock. If Tolkien created the idea of Fantasy which is set on a whole new world, Moorcock pioneered the idea of many worlds - a whole Multiverse. His Eternal Champion is forever reborn into new lives in punishment for some ancient crime he can never escape. Moorcock skillfully blends Fantasy with SF throughout his Eternal Champion novels, but by far his most mesmerising character is Elric of Melnibone, last emperor of a dying race who must carry the black runesword Stormbringer with him always in order to live... Yet the blade itself is evil and hungers most for the souls of those whom Elric loves... The idea of the doomed hero also comes from Moorcock.

4. The Chronicles Of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson. Not exactly pioneering, but perhaps the first writer to make a serious grab at the crown left by Tolkien. The Land is a compelling place and Covenant no hero at all, but a man with a deadly disease dragged into events far greater than himself and forced to face an evil against whom no-one can possibly win.

5. The Amber Series by Roger Zelazny. Zelazny is one of the all time great Fantasy & SF writers and this remains the pinnacle of his work. Corwin awakens in a mental hospital with no idea of who he is or how he got there. His journey to find out will take him through many worlds and pit him against pitiless foes who seek his destruction - the worst of whom are surely those within his own family... For to rule in Amber is to rule all that is...

[Ubereil]

Aug 9, 2009 0:32:35 GMT Elliot Kane said:

1. The Lord Of The Rings. Of course. The novel that started the entire modern Fantasy movement. Still unsurpassed in scope, detail and breadth of vision. This is how to make a world come to life.

I'd argue that The Weel of Time does surpas it when it comes to scope, detail and breadth of vision.

And nothing from that Gemmel dude you mentioned?

Oh, and another idea which I heard during my vacation (!!!), the sword Doombringer (and also the Chaos symbol), which serie was that born in?

Übereil

[Elliot Kane]

Few others would try to make that argument, Ube. Especially if they had read LoTR

***

The Chaos symbol is (Yet another) invention of Michael Moorcock. Order/Law is symbolised by a single straight arrow, indicating one path - a grand plan everyone follows. Chaos is represented by arrows branching out to every point of the compass, indicating infinite possibility. Everyone remembers the Chaos symbol simply because it is the most striking.

Doombringer, I don't recall. STORMbringer is the most famous aspect of the Black Sword, though every aspect of the Eternal Champion carries it in some form or another. Stormbringer is the second most powerful aspect of the Black Sword, after that used by Count Urlik Skarsol (For reasons you need to read Phoenix In Obsidian for...).

***

I only got to five. 6-10 will follow and will certainly include Gemmell

[Ubereil]

I read half of it! Which is more than you read of the Weel of Time IIRC.

So Stormbringer was Michael Moorcock? And that's from the Elic serie?

Übereil

[Elliot Kane]

6. The Drenai Novels by David Gemmell. Architect of the recent trend for more realism in Fantasy, Gemmell writes about people more than about heroes. It just so happens that his people ARE heroes, albeit often very fallible and human ones. When we first meet Druss The Legend (Arguably Gemmell's greatest creation), Druss is 60 years old and has arthritis, dodgy knees and fading eyesight. But he's called to battle one last time, as he is THE legend and the fate of his people rests on his tired shoulders... Don't ever bet on Gemmell's characters surviving, BTW. Most of them don't. He's rarely interested in 'good' or 'evil' either - only people clashing over conflicting agendas.

7. The Discworld Series. Terry Pratchett writes an interesting blend of philosophy, comedy and somewhat more serious Fantasy, most of which is squarely aimed at an any age audience. As such, he's one of the few writers on this list whose books can safely be read by young and old alike. Incredibly fond of taking genre cliches then giving them a weird twist, Pratchett is (Or was up until a few years ago) Britain's biggest selling living novelist for many very good reasons. His characters are almost without exception interesting and incredibly original creations.

8. The Saga Of The Exiles by Julian May. I hesitate a great deal to put this one on the list as technically it's not Fantasy at all, but rather SF. Nonetheless, while it begins in a future world that has invented time travel (And exiles criminals and malcontents into the Paleolithic, hence the title) by far most of the action takes place in the Paleolithic, where two human-like races of aliens are fighting a massive war with psionics and medieval-type weapons. A war into which the introduction of humans acts as an explosive mix. They are resources after all and who uses them best may win all... It's kind of a Fantasy novel in a shell of SF which is used to set it up. Or maybe the reverse...

9. The Dragonlance Series. Before the trillion or so spinoffs, Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman's compelling Dragonlance series was an epic story of a world at war, with the gods of evil commanding their dragons forth at the head of their armies to conquer the world. The only hope for those who would oppose them must surely lie with the good dragons - but where are they? Immensely popular series of novels, though probably not having a massive influence beyond their time.

10. Well, I got as far as 9, which is pretty good, I think! In terms of stuff I've personally read, I'm out of 'famous stuff you should have heard of and is great'. Unless I remember another one later, of course... ;D

[Elliot Kane]

Ube - Stormbringer is Elric's sword, yes.

I may one day read The Wheel Of Time - IF it's ever finished. Long series' have never frightened me, I just don't want to be waiting forever for a payoff that never comes.

But Tolkien started everything, in terms of modern Fantasy and his worldbuilding skills exceed those of everyone else I have ever read novels by. Maybe WoT is the exception, as you think, but I'm not holding my breath

Don't forget that Tolkien even created entire languages as a background for his world...

[Ubereil]

Discworld is a world, not a serie!

Übereil

[Elliot Kane]

It's a series, it's just not one continuous story throughout.

[Ubereil]

But most of the books have nothing to do with eachother! The only thing they have in common is that they take place in the same world and are written by the same writer. And are all hillarious. But apart from that it's about different characters who's got nothing to do with eachother and who does things that doesn't really affect eachother. That's not a series.

Übereil

[Elliot Kane]

Yes it is, Ube. A series is not the same thing as a serial. A series of books can be loosely connected and each novel can stand alone - as with Piers Anthony's Xanth series - or it can tell one continuous story, as with David Eddings' Belgariad novels.

Sometimes, a series even has contributions by many authors, as with the Thieves' World anthologies edited by Robert & Lynn Asprin.

[Gray Lensman]

I'll toss in a few series of my own now, I think.

The Dragaera series, by Steven Brust: Probably my favorite series currently running. The series centers on Vlad Taltos, a human assassin of the House of the Jhereg (who are the local crimelords) trying to survive in an empire ruled by the long-lived and powerful Dragaeran race. It's very noirish, but also fun, with the snark and deep characterization of Vlad keeping the story moving at every turn.

The Coldfire Trilogy, by C.S. Friedman: This one is a sort of science fantasy, focusing on the descendants of a ship that crash-landed on another world where magic (known as the fae) exists. Basically, it focuses on an uneasy alliance between a priest and a vampiric entity known as the Hunter to stop the source of the dark fae. The last book stumbles a bit, but the first two are quite compelling, and the two lead characters are fairly interesting.

The Death Gate series, by Weis and Hickman: As much as I love Dragonlance for its characters, I find that I'm fonder of Death Gate as an overall series. Two powerful races of magic-users (the Sartan and the Patryns) have been at war for ages. The Sartan won, and imprisoned the Patryns in a brutal and deadly Labyrinth. One of the escaped Patryns is charged to explore four elemental worlds, but he ends up learning far more about himself and the universe than he planned on. A seven-book series with some deeply intricate world-building, interesting characters, and some cameo appearances from one rather notable Dragonlance character.

[killerzzz]

Oh, I'd like to add Snake Agent by Liz Williams, which is part of the Detective Inspector Chen series. It's a blend of sci-fi and Chinese mysticism. I like what it says on the cover: Yun Chow Fat meets Constantine. It's the future. Humanity is now aware of Heaven and Hell, and the bureaucracy of both places. There are certain people who work with those realms, and any supernatural occurrences on the earthly plain. Such as Detective Inspector Chen, who investigates these things. He has been to Hell, and even worked with demons on certain cases. Now he must uncover a deep conspiracy that might change the balance of all the plains devastatingly.

It's fantasy.

I must find the other books and read them, because it was just fascinating.

Killerzzz

[Elliot Kane]

Abandoning all lists:

Robert Asprin's MYTH series. Concerns the misadventures of apprentice magician Skeeve and his friends across the dimensions. A good light hearted read with some humorous asides.

Shadows Of The Apt series by Adrian Tchaikovsky (This series is still ongoing). In a world of independent city-states where the many human tribes have acquired some insect traits in order to survive (Beetles are tough and enduring, Ants have telepathy with others of their own city - and hate all other Ant cities, Flies are short but their Art-wings make them incredibly manouvrable in the air, etc) a new Empire is rising, as the Wasps seek dominion over all other cities. The new art of technology is rapidly wiping out the old (And now widely disbelieved) path of magic, but everything will be needed if the Wasps are to be stopped. Extremely inventive and utterly awesome series.