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Milk
Oct 5, 2009 11:39:16 GMT
Post by Hand-E-Food on Oct 5, 2009 11:39:16 GMT
I'm watching Little Britain USA at the moment. You may remember a regular sketch where a proper English family still breast feed their 30-year old son. In this sketch, they are staying with relatives in USA. The family runs out of milk so the English mother squirts some fresh milk from her breast into the host's cereal.
As much as I find this foul, I had to think about it. What about this situation is disgusting? The milk is fresh. Human milk is surely better for us than cow milk. What are your thoughts?
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Milk
Oct 5, 2009 13:09:07 GMT
Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Oct 5, 2009 13:09:07 GMT
part of the natural process of weaning a child off of milk, is that the mothers milk turns "sour" thus discoraging the child from drinking milk over eating real food.
Another part of it, is that breast milk is for babies, and not for normal consumptions, and so there's the social taboo.
And finally, Human milk contains a lot more fat, and is constructed differently to cows milk, so for most people will be too rich and have too strong a flavour compared to what they normally eat. (how many people don't like goats milk, for exactly this reason).
All of those (and probably a few more) reasons combined turns it into the social taboo that it is today (the few adults that have tried it going ick)
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Milk
Oct 5, 2009 16:29:49 GMT
Post by Glance A'Lot on Oct 5, 2009 16:29:49 GMT
Well, it must be said though that the cow milk we buy at the stores is slightly different from natural one (that containing between 3.8 - 4.5 % fat for example). And nothing beats the beauty of the packaging of human milk... Milk from a currently breast feeding mother will not be unhealthy, the taste is a matter of taste (and do any of you really remember what it tasted to you then???) But the question is on the social taboo. Breast feeding a child in public is being tabooised because it entails exposing the woman's breast to view - in other cultures, where breast feeding is still common, or which have not been 'civilized' by Christian puritanism, that is not so. Another point may be that we emphasize too much 'to grow up'. One is not supposed to act as children. Even children are groomed to behave and are dressed up as small adults earlier than their natural development would entice them to.
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Milk
Oct 11, 2009 12:20:42 GMT
Post by fughawzi on Oct 11, 2009 12:20:42 GMT
I find it a bit strange that people are more repulsed by their own species milk than the milk of another. It just isn't normal to consume a mother's milk after infancy for animals, so it is weird that any is after a certain age. I would be just as weirded out about human milk being consumed as cow's. Not normal or necessary! It has done it's job and you're supposed to move on to other nutrient sources.
Dairy is extremely unhealthy consumed in the large doses it normally is for many reasons - Cholesterol, bad fats, and the fact that the high protein content starts to actually leech calcium from our bones after a certain point. Honestly, cow's milk is there to turn tiny calves into huge ass cows, isn't it? Why drink so much of something that does that! I don't know, I find it super weird and shall stick to my almond version.
I also don't get the whole controversy over breastfeeding in public, but that is a whole 'nother effing thread.
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Milk
Oct 11, 2009 14:49:19 GMT
Post by Ubereil on Oct 11, 2009 14:49:19 GMT
It just isn't normal to consume a mother's milk after infancy for animals, so it is weird that any is after a certain age. I would be just as weirded out about human milk being consumed as cow's. Not normal or necessary! It has done it's job and you're supposed to move on to other nutrient sources. Milk is quite healthy though. It contains high levels of calcium, vitamin A, B and D and high value protein. It's not necessary, but as long as you survive, what is? Dairy is extremely unhealthy consumed in the large doses it normally is for many reasons For the record, how large is large? A hint on cutting down on fat dairies is not to use actual cream by the way. Use milk normally and then stick to some low-fat cream when you want to be luxurious. If you're not used to cream you won't notice the difference. Honestly, cow's milk is there to turn tiny calves into huge ass cows, isn't it? Why drink so much of something that does that! As someone who still drink milk I feel like I'm in a better position than most to answer that. First of all, it doesn't turn me into a huge ass cow. Partly because it's skimmed so it doesn't contain 4,5% fat, it contains 1,5% fat. As for the reason why I drink it it's because I've always drunk it. Someone said "habit is the prime human motivator", I can't recall who it was though... Anyway, I'm thinking about quitting. I don't really benefit from the calcium anymore (if I ever did...) and it supposedly gives me pimples (skimmed milk does that). The reason I don't is because I've got no idea what else to drink. The only somewhat healthy/tasty option is water, which is too boring. Übereil
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Milk
Oct 11, 2009 15:24:55 GMT
Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 11, 2009 15:24:55 GMT
ROFL! ;D
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Milk
Oct 11, 2009 20:26:26 GMT
Post by Flix on Oct 11, 2009 20:26:26 GMT
I drink unsweetened soy milk. Not because I buy into any of the hype around it, but because it has less sugars than regular milk. The lowest fat milk available is still going to have 17 grams of simple sugars a serving (as lactose).
On cereal, I can't tell a huge difference with the soy milk. I just put a little packet of Splenda on the cereal (I eat Kashi 7 grain blend or shredded wheat - can get a little bland). I'm still not used to soy milk being kinda tan though; always looks like real milk gone bad.
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 2:01:50 GMT
Post by fughawzi on Oct 12, 2009 2:01:50 GMT
I'm going to start this by saying that I'm talking America here.
Milk is still an animal product and animal products are not remotely healthy unless consumed very sparingly. My parent's milk, for instance, does not have many nutrients going for it other than calcium and protein; vitamins a and d have to be added. And, really, the amount of calcium isn't that fantastic to warrant the problems that go along with it. Kale and broccoli have the same amount or more bioavailable calcium wrapped in a high fiber package.
The Standard American Diet (SAD) is high fat, high protein, high sugar, and low fiber - not a good combination. In this typical diet, basically any amount of milk is going to cause the leaching; it goes hand in hand with high consumption of animal proteins. It isn't just milk causing this. If you consume just one or two servings of meat a week and, at most, two glasses of milk, will this be so much of a problem? No. But it still isn't the health juice so many people make it out to be. Too big of a deal is made out of calcium consumption.. It is incredibly important, but it needs to be combined with vitamin d, magnesium, and exercise (especially strength training) to have a long lasting effect.
I drink unsweetened almond milk. A serving is only 40 calories and has the same amount of vitamin d, only slightly less calcium (I think about 25%), 50% of vitamin e, 10% of vitamin A, and smaller amounts of iron, phosphorus, and magnesium. It doesn't have much protein, but I get that from other sources. If I want something sweeter, I add a drop of agave. If you're interested in giving up dairy, I'd suggest trying a few non-dairy versions and slowly thinning out the dairy with them until you're used to it.
Flix - I remember the first time I saw a milk commercial after being nondairy for awhile, I had to go see if cow's milk was really that white. You forget very quickly. Have you ever tried Almond Breeze? I prefer it in cereals over soy. I used to love Kashi!
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 4:24:02 GMT
Post by Flix on Oct 12, 2009 4:24:02 GMT
I'm not giving up dairy. I love cheese too much. I'm just trying to avoid sugars (of all the evils, I think this one is far and away the worst). My main concern is controlling glucose and insulin levels. I haven't tried almond milk but I might look into it as I've read reports on soy affecting hormone levels and such. I strongly disagree about high protein being a flaw in the SAD (the rest I wholeheartedly agree with - the amount of fat one needs is small and no one needs any sugar, ever). Protein is the one macronutrient that isn't stored, after about 3 hours of digestion, it's gone, unlike carbs and fat, which digest faster but are stored away. And your body is all-too-willing to turn on its own muscle for fuel before it burns fat. The other thing is, there's not just 'protein' but an array of amino acids you need to have a 'complete' serving of protein. No one plant product has all these amino acids - you'd have to combine several sources - nuts, soy, veggies, etc. at every meal to keep up. On the other hand, a lean piece of chicken breast has the complete spectrum of amino acids. This is one reason I think vegans and vegetarians are often so scrawny. Sure, they're lean, and bravo, but their body burned all their muscle away to keep a supply of amino acids! (unless they're a body builder, which I've seen as well). Protein also has a thermic advantage - that is, it's good for getting and staying lean because it makes your body work to digest it - same with high fiber foods. Only after massive amounts is it converted to glucose. The main problem with meat IMO is the often high fat content (especially in red meat, the big baddie of meats). But this is easily avoided by eating fish and seafood (yummy!) Unless you have kidney damage, I don't see why protein should be that limited. A breakdown of my basic diet is 40% of calories from protein (lean meat, soy, various other foods) 45% from carbs (lots of fibrous veggies and whole grains almost exclusively with some yogurt occasionally) and 15% from fat (I try to limit saturated fat and definitely no trans-fat). This doesn't count my once a week cheat meal, which is deplorable I'm sure.
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 5:42:47 GMT
Post by fughawzi on Oct 12, 2009 5:42:47 GMT
I need to become a nutritionist.
Hokay, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Vegetarians and vegans do not need to combine proteins at every meal, that myth was dispelled a long time ago. By the way: Hemp seeds, amaranth, quinoa, soy protein isolate. People saying that really bothers me! Arghbfdfg. Also, most vegetarians and vegans I've met are not scrawny at all. I have no idea where people get that. I've met maybe two that were and they lived off of junk food. And Lews, but he has medical problems.
Protein = awesome. A high protein diet where the source is mostly animal products? Not so much. The problem lies more with the source than anything. High consumption of animal protein is what causes the leaching I was talking about earlier, which causes osteoporosis, which is not happy. So again, tons of protein is bad when it isn't mostly from non-animal sources. Unless you are heavily into athletics or are pregnant or nursing, a moderate amount of protein from heart healthy sources is recommended. The American Heart Association recommends 3-6 oz of lean meats, seafood, and poultry a day and no more (3 oz = cooked meat about the size of a computer mouse/grilled fish about the size of a checkbook). I think that usually adds up for 21 grams of protein in meat, right? You would need to add in some other sources to get the recommended daily amount.
High protein intake is also known to encourage urinary calcium losses and has been shown to increase risk of fracture in research studies. (Abelow BJ, Holford TR, Insogna KL. Cross-cultural association between dietary animal protein and hip fracture: a hypothesis. Calcif Tissue Int 1992;50:14-18 and Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Protein consumption and bone fractures in women. Am J Epidemiol 1996;143:472-9).
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 7:17:50 GMT
Post by Flix on Oct 12, 2009 7:17:50 GMT
Fug - I acquiesce to your probably superior knowledge. Nutrition is one field of learning where it seems like I'm never on top of it. The ground is always shifting. One thing may be 'true' and backed by dozens of studies and personal stories, the next day the exact opposite is true. And the old theories don't die, they just stubbornly co-exist with the new ones and the really old ones that sometimes make a 'comeback.' Nevermind the million and one people that are living exceptions to even the hard and fast rules - the red meat eater who never has colon problems a day in his life, the cookie-eater who never gets blood-sugar spikes, the smoker who never gets emphysema or lung cancer. I have these things in my head, like little orb-shaped cameras, they 'see' things and send the image to my brain...
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 7:58:56 GMT
Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 12, 2009 7:58:56 GMT
I suspect the best diet for each of us as individuals will be different and based on our own genetic makeup. Beyond that, I defer to Zee, who knows this stuff
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 9:08:07 GMT
Post by Ubereil on Oct 12, 2009 9:08:07 GMT
I drink unsweetened almond milk. A serving is only 40 calories and has the same amount of vitamin d, only slightly less calcium (I think about 25%), 50% of vitamin e, 10% of vitamin A, and smaller amounts of iron, phosphorus, and magnesium. It doesn't have much protein, but I get that from other sources. If I want something sweeter, I add a drop of agave. If you're interested in giving up dairy, I'd suggest trying a few non-dairy versions and slowly thinning out the dairy with them until you're used to it. Interesting, I'll see if they sell it in our local supermarkets. Übereil
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 9:19:59 GMT
Post by Glance A'Lot on Oct 12, 2009 9:19:59 GMT
! The topic of 'correct' nutrition is as laden with beliefs as is relgion... In general, there is a lot of scientific research on the topic - which, one would think, should greatly benefit the accumulation of objective knowledge. Unfortunately most studies are sponsored by interested parties. 'The Human' basically needs a balance of proteines, fats and sugars as well as a few vitamines - that does not mean animal proteins or fats (alone), nor saccharose (fructose (fruit sugar) is a sugar too, after all - so is lactose and a great number of others). The modern 'civilization sickness' is not just that we eat the wrong things - it's that we eat too much of a lot of things. Most of us would be quite well off, if we ate just as many calories as we used during the day, in a balance. It wouldn't hurt - our teeth in the first instance - if we ate less processed food and would actually chew our food (and not just chewing gums) instead of cooking it into something 'soft and tender'... It also wouldn't hurt if one came to remember some natural tastes of food... You can easily eat half a turkey - if you hunted it down, prepared it from scratch with all the labour involved, and did somewhat more to lighten the fire than turning a switch. Isn't it strange that people use products to save time to find time to - excercise?
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 13:04:44 GMT
Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Oct 12, 2009 13:04:44 GMT
Can I just point out that full fat milk is only 3.25 - 4 % fat (as glance said at the top). And that of any food that we consumed, it is the only one with such a low fat % that people spend so much time talking about the various merits of 1/2 fat and skimmed versions of? Or that fact that nutritionists recommend that we get 30% of our calorie intake from fat and 15% from protein?
While all of these figures are hotly disputed by vegans, vegetarians, carnivores, dieters, etc. One thing they all agree on, is that the most important thing is a balanced diet. Which - as Fug said - means not eating huge amounts of anything (with the possible exception of veggies, as some of them are so low in calories)
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Milk
Oct 12, 2009 13:38:55 GMT
Post by twoheadedragon on Oct 12, 2009 13:38:55 GMT
cow's milk is there to turn tiny calves into huge ass cows, isn't it? Why drink so much of something that does that! I don't know, I find it super weird and shall stick to my almond version. I also don't get the whole controversy over breastfeeding in public, but that is a whole 'nother effing thread. Well, at 185 cm's in height, and sporting a lean, wiry, muscular build, I'd say regularly drinking milk has turned me into more of a bull than a cow. And my bones don't fracture: while playing football, whenever the other guy's shin clashes with mine, he's the one who falls to the ground clutching his shin. Even when the shoes hits my shins, they don't fracture. My meat intake isn't too high, on average about 3 oz. a day (varies between fish, chicken, and beef, amount of consumption in that order), and many of my friends nickname me "Hercules," "Superman, " etc. ;D But hey, maybe I'm the 1,000,001th person Flix mentioned. Yes, completely correct.
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