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Post by Ubereil on Nov 3, 2009 17:50:27 GMT
I was talking about that specific song.
Übereil
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mobbie
Chaosite
Lalala
Posts: 906
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Post by mobbie on Nov 3, 2009 18:37:06 GMT
Ye I heard that specific one aswell ^^
@all - I think we sealed it for the last time now, that we cant be... She would just not be strong enough to say to everyone that she's in love with her brother.. She already got enough problems on her shoulders, risking that misinformed gossipgoers in school and her friends would start thinking things (Naturally, they won't realize the love we share...) would just break her down even more...
This is the second time now.. a relationship dies when both parts love the other this much, it's just completely unfair... She just sat in my lap and we hugged some.... I made a promise to never bring this up again and to start thinkign of her truly as my sister (and silently I promised myself to just suffocate my love for her, even though it tears me apart.)
I can't count the tears that have fallen just in the short minutes I wrote this.... 50? 100? It's a river... I held it back when she was here because I know she feels bad when she sees me crying, she starts thinking she only hurts me... I can't let her believe something like that.
She also went away quite abrupt, I only saw her cry once and that was due to her having a manic depression attack right when I was there.... She cries now, I know it... She doesn't want to show it to me either....
Both alone...
Both crying...
A love that dies, many tears will fall tonight~
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badheroine
Apprentice
Don't let today's disappointments cast a shadow on tomorrow's dreams.
Posts: 250
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Post by badheroine on Nov 3, 2009 18:43:27 GMT
Sugar, I'm sorry things have gone this way.... I really wish there was a way of stopping the hurt for both of you.... Don't cry alone....
You know, let the tears fall and feel the heartache.... It will be painful for you but you are only human and you should embrace your emotions. Even the negative ones. I really wish I could give you that hug right now..... Gotta go.... crying on your behalf again.
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Post by Flix on Nov 3, 2009 18:56:42 GMT
Well, I'm depressed now.
I doubt anything I could say would help, but just know that I feel for you anyways.
..............
As to others discussing monogamy being natural or not....this is ridiculous. Humans are products of nature. Thus nothing we do could be unnatural. If you mean monogamy occurs outside of humans, it obviously does. But far less often than polygamy. If you mean the human mind and behavior can somehow be split into natural and unnatural...I repeat this is ridiculous.
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Post by Ubereil on Nov 3, 2009 19:43:23 GMT
I'd claim rejecting that you're homosexual and trying to live a heterosexual life (with a wife) would be unnatural. Because it would be going against your nature, which is to be homosexual.
Übereil
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Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 3, 2009 19:59:27 GMT
You'd need to define 'natural' even to have the debate - and find a definition we could all agree on...
***
Mobs - I know words are nothing but static right now, but you have my sympathy regardless, for what little that will be worth.
Hard as it is, remember that time may change all things.
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badheroine
Apprentice
Don't let today's disappointments cast a shadow on tomorrow's dreams.
Posts: 250
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Post by badheroine on Nov 3, 2009 20:14:05 GMT
Mobs (Sugar  ) Just know that what I said to you earlier is true.... I am here to talk to, hurl abuse at, cry with or anything else you need.... despite this hard time EK is right... time can change things. As hard as it may be to do right now, don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened. Hugs to you Sugar x |
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mobbie
Chaosite
Lalala
Posts: 906
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Post by mobbie on Nov 3, 2009 20:46:39 GMT
Rawr just sad times -_-
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Post by LaFille on Nov 3, 2009 22:08:56 GMT
Things seem to go really fast, there, maybe needlessly so... It's obvious that she has many reasons that block her from wanting to go all the way with you for now, and that's a thing you can only do at two. By wanting to go too fast and putting too much pressure at wanting a conventional relationship, you risk to lose your chances to get one eventually. Passion and sex, while being emotionally more intense, seem to be at the base of what messes things between you at the moment but what is the most important is the deeper bond that is based on trust, affection and mutual understanding. It's something that takes some time to build, but given how delicate the situation is working on that looks to have better chances of bringing you the rest eventually than trying to go the other way around. (And really, so what if she "shops" elsewhere (same goes for you) while you two progress? These kinds of insecurities are a lot about ego... The most important is that the one you love be well and happy, and that includes being free to give herself to whoever she decides even if it hurts you. Giving her this kind of love will always beat that of those who want to make someone "theirs".)
In the mean time, there might be some concrete productive steps you can take on your side to calm your apprehensions that could eventually calm hers as well. Do you have an idea of what your parents' opinion would be about you two getting involved together? You could very well talk to them confidentially while keeping her position secret; like, just telling them that you think you're in love with her, that she might too, and that you feel guilty about it, not knowing what to do, but letting them believe that it's something you two haven't put on the table yet. If their reaction is positive, telling her how it went may secure her to step further with you if that's really the biggest obstacle to it. And if not, well, at least you'll know what to expect.
You can also write to her a deeply though letter that you will have written keeping as much perspective on things as you can. It will be an additional sign that you care for her first and will also give her something physical that she'll can keep and come back or refer to as she pleases (we girls love to do that, lol, and tend to treasure such things).
Hang on, there! And yeah, I'll PM you to catch-up some time tonight or tomorrow... That post took much longer to write than expected.  ;D |
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mobbie
Chaosite
Lalala
Posts: 906
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Post by mobbie on Nov 3, 2009 23:08:33 GMT
@fille (You know how I love you already <3<3)
I think I may not have been clear enough on this but, sex and passion is not the foundation and reason it all is tearing apart.
It's the stress put on her by the whole situation.
Girl with extremely low selfconfidence who have never had a stable home and have tried to kill herself and successfully hurt herself a lot in different ways, got a pretty banged up schoolrecord for being at carecenters and missing out on semesters..
Add that for some reason, guys are on her all the time, she got hit on by atleast 5 guys that I know off during the time we were together. And what can se do? She can't say she's dating someone because they'd ask who, and she can't say. So she says she's single. People KEEP hitting on her (and you don't wanna picture my envy, even though she didn't want to, she had to answer them and she treasured them as friends so... she had to be nice.)
THIS is the biggest stress I think, she CANT feel secure in a relationship when she can't even say she's with someone, having people hit on you when you are already in love... everyday...
Of course she'd feel split, and of course the thoughts "it would be better to be with someone I can admit" will be frequent.
I love her to death and so does she, even after crying our hearts out she still didn't want to sleep alone tonight... But she does anyway, she figured it's best.
I know the time will come when she got a new boyfriend, most likely within a month, and if I find out (I hope I dont) I still won't be able to handle that pain of envy... And that [manually censored] hurts, I dont wanna be a drag who can't let her go, but I know I will have such a hard time dealing with it...
Right now I'm just thinking about different ways to (without hurting myself intentionally, I vowed never to do that) put my body in a state where it can't feel such pain.
I realize now that I will most likely be pushing my training to the extreme and will wreck myself, as when you are on the border where you can't even stand or breathe normally, you can't feel anything else...
It's so sick, very often now I wish that the love was never mutual, that it was just a tragic case of oneway love. That would hurt less.
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mobbie
Chaosite
Lalala
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Post by mobbie on Nov 3, 2009 23:11:46 GMT
It doesn't quite cheer me up to see she changed her "msn comment" to - I Will Come To The End, The End Of This Life And Leave All This [Censored]Forever! since we spoke.... I talked to her on msn, chatlog replica- me"  " her"?" me"- I Will Come To The End, The End Of This Life And Leave All This [Censored]Forever! " her"...." me"You mean a lot, never forget that...." her"I dont care!" More than obvious that I triggered more depressions... Wouldn't be the first time... Soemtimes I feel I only hurt her, by this inconvenient love... |
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Post by janggut on Nov 4, 2009 5:51:01 GMT
for mobs, it's a song from Chris Cornell (Sunshower).
Dark as roses, fine as sand
Feel your healing and your sting again
I hear you laughing and my soul is saved
On forgotten graves you cry
Crawl like ivy up my spine
Through my nerves and into my eyes
Cuts like anguish
Or recollections of better days gone by
But it's all right
When you're caught in pain
And you feel the rain come down
It's all right
When you find your way
Then you see it disappear
It's all right
Though your garden's grey
I know all your graces
Someday will flower
In the sweet sunshower
Eyes like oceans so far away
A feather trail to a better way
Worried mornings turn into days
Then into worried nights
But it's all right
When you're all in pain
And you feel the rain come down
Oh it's all right
When you find your way
Then you see it disappear
Oh it's all right
Though your garden's grey
I know all your graces
Someday will flower
Oh in the sweet sunshower
Oh in the sweet sunshower
In the sweet sunshower
I know all your graces
Someday will flower
In the sweet sunshower
And it's all right
All you'll be you are today
Are today
It's all right
All you'll be you are today
Are today.........
*******************************************************************
@ mob -> i know u're in a world of hurt, man. but in that world of hurt, u can easily hurt people closest 2 u without realising it. i know i'm being harsh here but STOP pushing that girl. i know u mean well. if u really love her so so so much, then u have to let her go. u're smothering her. looking at the msn chatlog, it looks like u're suffocating her. love's not about forcing it on others, it's about being the best support when that person needs it. BE IT, mobs. she needs a brother right now. BE ONE.
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mobbie
Chaosite
Lalala
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Post by mobbie on Nov 4, 2009 8:18:05 GMT
@ mob -> i know u're in a world of hurt, man. but in that world of hurt, u can easily hurt people closest 2 u without realising it. i know i'm being harsh here but STOP pushing that girl. i know u mean well. if u really love her so so so much, then u have to let her go. u're smothering her. looking at the msn chatlog, it looks like u're suffocating her. love's not about forcing it on others, it's about being the best support when that person needs it. BE IT, mobs. she needs a brother right now. BE ONE. I realized that myself aswell... I am doing whatever I can now. We still sleep next to eachother, we´ve been doing so for months, we still care for eachother and don't just push the other part away. We sleep next to her and she, in a very primitive way (i.e as a baby wanting to be near its mother) she wants me to hold her.. I do... I don't ask her questions anymore, I don't tell her how I miss her anymore, I'm just there and if she wants to talk it's fine but I do believe she just wants to feel that I can still care for her and won't leave her without anyone to come to. This fear is quite understandable as, after the first time we said we'd stop (which we couldn't...) I had such a hard time even just looking at her by the dinnertable, I feared I'd start crying right there. I didn't realize how much it hurt HER that I wouldn't even look at her anymore. She told me that the next time we talked and I understood what a jackass I had been.. I told her why I didn't look at her and promised that no matter what happened I won't ever treat her like air again, that it was just too hard at that time to hold back the tears. I treasure that promise dearly, I don't WANT to push her away, I wanna be her brother even though my heart's screaming, my arms can be those of a brother's. My hands. So why can't my love... I think it will be. |
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Post by Ubereil on Nov 4, 2009 8:30:30 GMT
You'd need to define 'natural' even to have the debate - and find a definition we could all agree on... And considering Alzeimerz is (probably :  natural the whole debate runs a great risk of having purely an academical value... ;D Übereil |
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Post by Flix on Nov 4, 2009 8:53:13 GMT
You'd need to define 'natural' even to have the debate - and find a definition we could all agree on... And considering Alzeimerz is (probably : natural the whole debate runs a great risk of having purely an academical value... ;D Übereil Most of what I discuss on here would fall into that category. My point was that no definition of natural is even worth using. I dare you to supply me with one that has any usefulness or significance in talking about human behavior. Only ignorant fools would ever divide up human behavior and the human mind into 'natural' and 'unnatural.' It makes no sense, regardless of the definition. To do so makes the inherent assumption that there is some part of humanity that is not part of this world, not a product of the environment, of biology, genetics, physics. I really want to know what any of you mean by this, even if this thread isnt' the place for it. No name-calling I promise. Going against your 'nature' (by which you simply mean preference or tendency) by choosing one sex over the other is not at all a good example. That's like saying eating vegan is unnatural because you love and have always loved meat and cheese. Maybe if you chose to eat nails and pennies....hmmm....but then, nature still provided you with the brain that became wired with the desire to eat metal. Then all natural means is 'normal.' |
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Post by Ubereil on Nov 4, 2009 9:28:30 GMT
I'd acually argue that going Vegan is unnatural.  I'd also argue that nature's more that just 'preference or tendency'. But I'm not going to since it would just be a waste of time. Übereil |
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Nov 4, 2009 9:47:37 GMT
@ mob -> i know u're in a world of hurt, man. but in that world of hurt, u can easily hurt people closest 2 u without realising it. i know i'm being harsh here but STOP pushing that girl. i know u mean well. if u really love her so so so much, then u have to let her go. u're smothering her. looking at the msn chatlog, it looks like u're suffocating her. love's not about forcing it on others, it's about being the best support when that person needs it. BE IT, mobs. she needs a brother right now. BE ONE. I realized that myself aswell... I am doing whatever I can now. We still sleep next to eachother, we´ve been doing so for months, we still care for eachother and don't just push the other part away. We sleep next to her and she, in a very primitive way (i.e as a baby wanting to be near its mother) she wants me to hold her.. I do... I don't ask her questions anymore, I don't tell her how I miss her anymore, I'm just there and if she wants to talk it's fine but I do believe she just wants to feel that I can still care for her and won't leave her without anyone to come to. This fear is quite understandable as, after the first time we said we'd stop (which we couldn't...) I had such a hard time even just looking at her by the dinnertable, I feared I'd start crying right there. I didn't realize how much it hurt HER that I wouldn't even look at her anymore. She told me that the next time we talked and I understood what a jackass I had been.. I told her why I didn't look at her and promised that no matter what happened I won't ever treat her like air again, that it was just too hard at that time to hold back the tears. I treasure that promise dearly, I don't WANT to push her away, I wanna be her brother even though my heart's screaming, my arms can be those of a brother's. My hands. So why can't my love... I think it will be. /huggle Keep up the communication, it's the only way of keeping things sane, and friendly. |
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Post by Flix on Nov 4, 2009 10:02:25 GMT
I'd acually argue that going Vegan is unnatural. I'd also argue that nature's more that just 'preference or tendency'. But I'm not going to since it would just be a waste of time. Übereil A waste under any circumstances, or a waste explaining it to me specifically? |
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mobbie
Chaosite
Lalala
Posts: 906
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Post by mobbie on Nov 4, 2009 10:08:22 GMT
@dpr yea we are.. I think it will be allright.
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Post by Ubereil on Nov 4, 2009 11:23:05 GMT
A waste under any circumstances, or a waste explaining it to me specifically? A waste in general. Übereil |
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) Just know that what I said to you earlier is true.... I am here to talk to, hurl abuse at, cry with or anything else you need.... despite this hard time EK is right... time can change things. As hard as it may be to do right now, don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened. Hugs to you Sugar x
;D
"
natural the whole debate runs a great risk of having purely an academical value... ;D
I'd also argue that nature's more that just 'preference or tendency'. But I'm not going to since it would just be a waste of time.
