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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 10, 2009 1:06:37 GMT
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 1:15:32 GMT
Progressive Islam. Thats an oxymoron isn't it?
Oh, and this kind of [Censored]has been tried before. They'll be killed or ignored.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 10, 2009 1:44:02 GMT
Always hope, Terror  Maybe enough Muslims will get sick of the needless turmoil, this time. That's all it takes to tip the balance. |
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 2:00:58 GMT
Yea, EK. They've tried these reform things periodically since 9/11. I don't see how someone is going to convince people parts of the Qur'an need to be 'reformed'. Given that its the literal word of god.
These just plainly put, don't go well, and don't get enough support. They are a fantasy.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 10, 2009 2:07:05 GMT
Well, we can hope |
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 2:20:03 GMT
Oh yes, we can certainly hope.
I wonder how much credit this hope will afford you when this man is ignored or butchered?
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 10, 2009 2:40:33 GMT
It's not about credit, Terror. Sure, it'll be a major uphill struggle for the poor guy, but I'd rather have more like him than the hate-spewing maniacs who want to butcher the rest of us, wouldn't you?
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 6:56:51 GMT
But your really not getting my point Elliot. This. Man. Is. Not. The. First.
And they either end up DEAD. Or IGNORED.
See? See where your not really getting this? This is not something new. Mk?
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 10, 2009 9:50:47 GMT
I KNOW that, Terror. What YOU are not getting is that unless the rest of the world wants to have to fight an apocalyptic war with Islam sooner or later we NEED the people like him to win. Because if the crazies can finally suppress all dissent and all decency amongst Muslims, the only path left is worldwide conflict. It's all their brand of hatred has to offer.
Dunno about you, but I'm not keen on that idea.
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 10:35:57 GMT
Its happened before it'll happen again.
Look, the aggressive crush descent, and destroy the weak in their path until something stops them, and its usually not from within.
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Apr 10, 2009 10:41:16 GMT
What we need is a return to letting the scholars being the arbertrators of "THE LAW" rather than whomn ever happens to be able to read it. As the scholars are scholars regardless of anything that goes on around them, and so are less likely to be biased, afraid of losing power, or trying to gain power.
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Post by The Sonar Chicken on Apr 10, 2009 10:47:19 GMT
Hmmm... reminds me of what happened a while ago: there was at least one article about how those in the Muslim world finally realised that by supporting hardline terrorists or not speaking up about such issues, they're hurting themselves the most since it's their own people who get hurt/killed more than the "outsiders"/"enemies" do.
Glad to see a few are starting to get it this time round.
Nope, Terror, if others try to crush them, it'd only build resentment and also, that might encourage the hardliners further. We also might get the couple of idiots who actually try to use nuclear or bio weapons and who know how to in their fight against the "enemies" or "whoever that is". Going poof with the entire planet is NOT my idea of passing away. :/ The idea of someone claiming that their followers will be safe while the rest of the infidels/enemies won't be, is a very common idea in religion and otherwise, isn't it?
On a sidenote: it's easy to build a home-made bomb. However, building a nuclear bomb is tough yet that won't stop some nuthead from finding scientists willing to do the dirty work for them.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 10, 2009 10:55:16 GMT
There actually seems to be something of a movement within Islam itself. This guy is far from the only one I've read articles on who seems to be trying to make Islam into a genuine religion of peace, not "Islam is a religion of peace and we will KILL all who say otherwise!"- which is the version preferred by the lunatics.
Progressive Imams and Islamic scholars are finally standing up to be counted, which is great. It's in everyone's interests that peace should prevail, whatever their beliefs may be.
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 11:15:14 GMT
"Nope, Terror, if others try to crush them, it'd only build resentment and also, that might encourage the hardliners further."-
Tell that to the Nazi's.
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 11:17:08 GMT
Progressive Imams and Islamic scholars are finally standing up to be counted, which is great. It's in everyone's interests that peace should prevail, whatever their beliefs may be. No. Simply put. No. There are prices too high for Peace, and this is one of them. I'm not saying "Go to War with Islam", but I'm challenging the statement itself. Especially considering you know, Shiara Law, and the "Teachings" of the "Prophet" Mohammad. Yea. Sometimes the price for Peace is too high. You Europeans are just going to learn the hard way again though, which is fine. Pass me a post card in 30 years once they start trying to segregate the society  |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Apr 10, 2009 11:37:05 GMT
Read the article, Terror. This guy makes some VERY interesting points about Shari'a and the Hadith...
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Post by The Sonar Chicken on Apr 10, 2009 12:05:28 GMT
Wait.... what do the Nazis have got to do with this?  |
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Post by kitty on Apr 10, 2009 13:27:52 GMT
I think it's a good atempt. When the first progressive jewish split groups started they had giant trouble as well and still, it worked for some - why shouldn't it for islam.
Terre - don't think a Nazi comment to that sentence made much sense.
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 17:41:57 GMT
I think it's a good atempt. When the first progressive jewish split groups started they had giant trouble as well and still, it worked for some - why shouldn't it for islam. Terre - don't think a Nazi comment to that sentence made much sense. Kitty: The comment claimed that crushing a minority group under a larger group within a social community, would not work. The Communists in Germany were crushed by the Nazis violently after they got their "51%" if you will and Hitler took power. Fear and intimidation work a lot better than people think. |
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Post by Terrordar on Apr 10, 2009 17:42:51 GMT
Read the article, Terror. This guy makes some VERY interesting points about Shari'a and the Hadith... I read the article, and I think his beliefs on Shari'a are at the very least full of [Censored] though his views on the Hadith have mildly more validity. And yet it still only mildly changes the Qur'an. Funny that. |
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