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Post by Terrordar on Aug 3, 2009 16:48:04 GMT
Most of the brutal nations have long histories, you know,
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Post by ss on Aug 4, 2009 0:52:27 GMT
America is still quite intolerant, huh? Could it be that the history of that country(not geographically-speaking) is rather short, so the people can't appreciate what they've got and don't understand what it's like to lose everything? Well, we may well be intolerant...probably are...all HUMANITY is intolerant...our history is still 300 years (less) but the people who came here did so for freedom to express what they believed (intolerant or otherwise) as where they came from the had LOST EVERYTHING... FYI, most of those intolerant areas concerning homosexuality are working from LAW, (you may think it wrong or right) but if it has any semblance of freedom, you should CHANGE THE LAW....not demand rights that are in violation of that law... Homosexuals protest, march, get PAC groups in Congress, spend money and numerous other things to try and change the law. When the people speak it will be done..even the henious crime of abortion is now law.?? It is IMO arrogant to tell me that I am the one unenlightned if I don't buy your philosophy concerning homosexuality (if I do so). DISCRIMINATION against homosexuals is another issue...
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 4, 2009 1:22:24 GMT
Luci - all borders are artificial and political, if you think about it, except for the very few genuine islands. We define regions not by geography, but by 'people groups'.
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Post by fughawzi on Aug 4, 2009 9:06:49 GMT
..What? Your typing style confuses me, ss.
Sonar - Like most places that tend to be intolerant, the U.S. is more on the religious side and when that mixes with government and people who tend not to be that educated.. Well, this is what you get. We'll get there eventually, but the new religious right (They really shouldn't be considered republicans) still have quite the hold on a scarily large number of people, people who tend to actually get out there and vote.
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Post by twoheadedragon on Aug 4, 2009 11:01:04 GMT
..What? Your typing style confuses me, ss. Sonar - Like most places that tend to be intolerant, the U.S. is more on the religious side and when that mixes with government and people who tend not to be that educated.. Well, this is what you get. We'll get there eventually, but the new religious right (They really shouldn't be considered republicans) still have quite the hold on a scarily large number of people, people who tend to actually get out there and vote. And I thought it was supposed to be "the land of the free..."
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Post by kitty on Aug 4, 2009 15:13:10 GMT
It is IMO arrogant to tell me that I am the one unenlightned if I don't buy your philosophy concerning homosexuality (if I do so). DISCRIMINATION against homosexuals is another issue... We could argue that enforcing your belief, that all homosexuals are sinners and will burn in eternal hellfire, is a form of discrimination. It certainly is mental abuse. I never understood how religion gets away with openly spreading death threats.
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Aug 4, 2009 16:26:25 GMT
don't forget that Hell didn't exist until christianity came into contact with the norse, and tried to convert them. And the modern view of hell didn't come into effect until a playwrite/composer called dante.
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Post by ss on Aug 4, 2009 16:40:17 GMT
It is IMO arrogant to tell me that I am the one unenlightned if I don't buy your philosophy concerning homosexuality (if I do so). DISCRIMINATION against homosexuals is another issue... We could argue that enforcing your belief, that all homosexuals are sinners and will burn in eternal hellfire, is a form of discrimination. It certainly is mental abuse. I never understood how religion gets away with openly spreading death threats. Lets try this ONE MORE TIME....I have NEVER said that homosexuals are going to hell..... I do say that homosexuals are sinners, (as are we all) so are aldulterers, murders...etc.... MY belief...and plain biblical teaching is that all who do NOT know Christ as Lord will go to hell...nothing more nothing less.
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Post by kitty on Aug 5, 2009 0:06:42 GMT
MY belief...and plain biblical teaching is that all who do NOT know Christ as Lord will go to hell...nothing more nothing less. Right. And that is better because...? Sorry ss, maybe you don't see my point atm but telling someone he will go to hell, is a death threat to me. (lets forget the whole gay issue for a sec)
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Post by ss on Aug 5, 2009 0:28:11 GMT
MY belief...and plain biblical teaching is that all who do NOT know Christ as Lord will go to hell...nothing more nothing less. Right. And that is better because...? Sorry ss, maybe you don't see my point atm but telling someone he will go to hell, is a death threat to me. (lets forget the whole gay issue for a sec) If he believed the gospel and converted...would it not be saving his life.??
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Post by kitty on Aug 5, 2009 0:59:28 GMT
^ Nope.
Lets take me for example (I know about me, so I'm a good example) - I'm an atheist. I'm of course a sinner and will go to hell since I do not believe in Jesus.
You will tell me I go to hell.
That is a death threat.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 5, 2009 2:38:51 GMT
It's more of an AFTER-death threat, Kit - and it's one you don't believe in anyway. So where's the problem?
By ss' beliefs, I'll be burning right there with you, but I don't believe in any of it, so it doesn't bother me even slightly.
All the 'what happens if...' stuff is only of interest to believers, or to those who are afraid that insert-religion-here may be right, after all. What is that to you or I?
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Post by ss on Aug 5, 2009 2:49:18 GMT
Kit, how can I be threatning you with death. I have no authority over you...anyhow...are you saying you are not going to die?? Guess what...you are....If you are right, we will all be more manure in the cemetary...no hope...the end.. If I am right...I'm outta here...and you are in deep trouble... I am most assuredly not worried....I don't know just how sure you are of where you stand...but you can rest assured that you are betting your "afterlife" on it.....if it exists...
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 5, 2009 2:56:02 GMT
If the Muslims or the Jews are right, though, ss, I'll see YOU down there, too! ;D
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Post by kitty on Aug 5, 2009 3:55:54 GMT
Of course I don't believe in all this hell rubbish but it still is something christianbs can openly walk around with - if i told someone "you'll going to die and it'll be painful!" he'll probably call the cops cause he is sure i'll kill him!
It's a principle thing people, I find it insulting that christian dare to tell me (and so many others) "you are going to die and it'll be BAAAAAD" - wheres the whole respect thing going?
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Post by kitty on Aug 5, 2009 3:56:31 GMT
Kit, how can I be threatning you with death. I have no authority over you...anyhow...are you saying you are not going to die?? Guess what...you are....If you are right, we will all be more manure in the cemetary...no hope...the end.. If I am right...I'm outta here...and you are in deep trouble... I am most assuredly not worried....I don't know just how sure you are of where you stand...but you can rest assured that you are betting your "afterlife" on it.....if it exists... I do not get any of that post ss afterlife? trouble? HUH? are we still talking about the same topic?!
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Aug 5, 2009 8:33:32 GMT
@ek - If it's the Jews that are right, then everyone goes to heaven, however a select few (144,000) make it into the inner circle, and all jews make it to a higher level of heaven. You may be right about the moslims though. kitty - As I tried to say earlier, Hell didn't exist before christianity met the norse (same as easter and christmas have been pilfered from other pagan faiths). Hell was the domain of the goddess Hel, and was where all those that hadn't qualified to go to the realm of another god went. It wasn't a bad place, but it was the default place and so considered to be an unglorious destination - kinda like entering a compatition where there's 5 trips to las vegas, 5 trips to bangalor, 5 trips to paris, 5 trips to sidney and 50,000 trips to cornwall. So the christians played on that and said that if you didn't want to go to hel, then all you had to do was worship their god, and ask Jesus for forgiveness - and you would go to heaven.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 5, 2009 8:35:19 GMT
Kit - you go around telling Christians that everything they believe is complete rubbish! Where's the respect thing on YOUR end?
I really don't get your problem, here. If you genuinely do NOT believe in ANY of this stuff, why does it bother you?
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 5, 2009 8:38:16 GMT
DPR - really? Everyone gets to Heaven? That kinda seems to defeat the object, but I can't say I hate it... ;D
Are you really sure? I thought the lake of fire thing was in the Torah? Or am I hopelessly confused, here?
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Post by Dark Phoenix Rising on Aug 5, 2009 8:56:55 GMT
The lake of fire was in the new testament - last book (Revelation of St. John - scary stuff). And except for the 144,000 (who wait in a somewhat more exclusive location) everyone goes to Sheol when they die to wait for the coming of the messiah and the day of judgement. At which point everyone will be assigned a "level" of heaven based on their faith and deeds in life (so those that are jewish will be better appointed than those that are not, but a good man is still up there at the top).
Even with the revelation of St. John only those that are judged completely unworthy of heaven will get sent to the lake of fire - where they will be obliterated.
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