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Post by Alrik on Mar 2, 2007 21:22:20 GMT
Reminds me of similar events in France last year or that year before.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Mar 2, 2007 23:18:40 GMT
Different origin though, Alrik.
The riots in France were caused largely by the ghettoisation of non-French minorities. While I cannot condone rioting, they at least had some point.
This lot don't.
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Post by ss on Mar 3, 2007 2:32:50 GMT
Call them "Youths" all you want, but terriorists are terriorists no matter what their nationalityor age. In Vietnam, children killed you the same as adults. It is apparently not simply civil unrest over a just cause, so my response would be very drastic. Put all of them in jail, one at a time or whatever, if they resist violently, then treat them the same. IMO all drug dealers, no matter the volume they deal, should be arbitrarily shot. No questions asked. But....that's just me....
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Post by Ubereil on Mar 3, 2007 8:39:33 GMT
But....that's just me.... And somehow I'm glad about that . Übereil
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Post by Galadriel on Mar 3, 2007 9:43:11 GMT
They just mentioned a little about it on our news at 10. Seems they didn't even had the rights on that house, it was just an empty house that they broke into and stayed there for a while. Unbelieveable how much those "youth" think that something they claimed as theirs, is in their heads also theirs to fight for!
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Post by peterh on Mar 3, 2007 14:09:38 GMT
And last night it escalated again.
200 arrests, more riots and fires. They're starting with the molotov cocktails as well. One school and one gymnasiums/high schools (one or two depending on what source you look at) was vandalised and they tried to set a kindergarten on fire as well. It continues escalating and will tonight as well.
This has got to stop.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Mar 3, 2007 14:12:25 GMT
Where the heck are your riot police?
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Post by peterh on Mar 3, 2007 14:12:39 GMT
They just mentioned a little about it on our news at 10. Seems they didn't even had the rights on that house, it was just an empty house that they broke into and stayed there for a while. Unbelieveable how much those "youth" think that something they claimed as theirs, is in their heads also theirs to fight for! Right, Kylia. They did not have the rights to the house. Back in 1982 when the youths first claimed the rights, they were offered it. But due to their extreme left wing view they declined - private ownership wasn't their thing. So they were given a contract where it said they could use the house provided they followed some basic rules. In 1997 the municipality (city counsil of Copenhagen) wanted a contract on paper due to countless breaches on the oral contract. The written contract states specific things like no drug use or drug dealing in the house, no sale of alcohol to minors, the user must not harass the neighbours and a whole slew of other stuff that was breached countless times. So the city counsil decided to terminate the contract and sell the house (which is perfectly within their rights) having lost patience with the users of Ungdomshuset. The youths exploded in rage and that's why there's riots currently - because they feel [Censored]ed by the city counsil, when really it's their own fault they were evicted. They could've just followed the rules in the contract. Now they youths demand a new house for free and the city counsil say no. And that's pretty much where were at now. Until this thing gets resolved we'll continue to see riots and vandalism in the street. Many of the people are actually underage - there's kids age 12 throwing molotov cocktails at the police - and those kids cannot be punished by law. What the hell do you do then?
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Post by Elliot Kane on Mar 3, 2007 14:17:28 GMT
What do you do?
1. Sack the city councillors for ever allowing this crap in the first place. They have effectively encouraged these kids to break the law all this time by pandering to them for far too long instead of throwing them out at the start.
2. change the law. WHY can't twelve year olds be punished? Don't you have any council care homes they can be sent to? Ditto for anyone younger.
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Post by peterh on Mar 3, 2007 14:19:13 GMT
Where the heck are your riot police? They police are there but they cannot be everywhere and cannot prevent everything. These youths are working much like terrorists cells (note - I do not compare them to terrorists) and creating havoc maybe 8 places taking up the majority of the police forces, while others advance of a 9th place (numbers are made up) and start rioting and fleeing before the police has time to arrest them... Now we've had to call in police from all over to give the already worn out ones some rest. at the same time a vast number of foreign activists have been denied access to Denmark from the German border as well as ferries from Norway and Sweden. This have become an international cause in those circles and there's been reports of even Canadian and American activists coming all the way to protest. Mind you, Denmark is still shunned in those circles due to the Mohamed Cartoon so I'd think it's quite easy to get support. Ive heard of large demonstrations (800 people) at the Danish Embassy in Norway (Think it was there) and other places. So even if the police have arresten 400 people the number of activists continue to grow as people come to their aid. Not only from Denmark but also those who're able to cross the border.
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Post by peterh on Mar 3, 2007 14:22:51 GMT
What do you do? 1. Sack the city councillors for ever allowing this crap in the first place. They have effectively encouraged these kids to break the law all this time by pandering to them for far too long instead of throwing them out at the start. 2. change the law. WHY can't twelve year olds be punished? Don't you have any council care homes they can be sent to? Ditto for anyone younger. The city counsil gave them the house in the first place because there were a genuine need for those kids to have a place to play music and be alternative. I don't condone this, but at the time I do think these kids needed a place. But Ungdomshuset has evolved into something quite different than what it used to be - and that's why the city counsil wanted to have a written contract. I do not like the city counsil very much and think this has gone far enough for too long. But they'll never get the boot anyway - not with a probably 10% of our population sympathetic and understanding to the riots. And Copenhagen has always been a red town anyway.. The most that will happen to the kids is they will be forced to talk to a counselor of some sorts. I don't think there's more to do, really.
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Post by peterh on Mar 3, 2007 16:21:03 GMT
And I found a link in English.. And this article only mentions violence. Doesn't mention vandalising schools, high schools, attempted burning of Kindergartens. Massive destruction of private stores, cars and other property. Neither that the youths are using molotov cocktails, chrysantemum bombs (which afaik was used to ravage schoolrooms) and other nifty weapons. The high school that was ravaged isn't covered by insurance so they have to finance the bill (which is rumored to be in the 100.00$ in equipment - not sure if this covers damaged buildings) so that will be quite a strain on the economy... Edit: Another link
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Post by peterh on Mar 3, 2007 18:51:01 GMT
Here's a link to a picture gallery of the events. I think these are from the first night of demonstrations so there's no pictures of chrysantemum bombs, four mete high fires, vandalisez stores or vandalised schools (or attempted destruction of a kindergarten). Take a look - this is what's going on - and remember this is nothing compared to what happened later. To advance to the next pic just press "næste". Picture series - see all 36
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Post by janggut on Mar 5, 2007 2:13:23 GMT
@ Pete -> i was pretty shocked when i saw in on the news late last nite. i really hope things will get better soon.
the way i see it, there must be something more than just that house which inflamed the youths with anger. the house may be only a catalyst to the inner turmoil or discontent they have. not quite sure what it is. need more data.
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Post by killerzzz on Mar 5, 2007 15:30:05 GMT
When I told someone I know about all this, he mentionned then Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 in China (aka, The Tiananmen Square Massacre). That happened with non-violent protesters! My friend suggested: "The Chinese had a way to handle it..." I didn't know what to say about that. I don't really like the idea of killing, but some situations need to be dealt with harshly. Is this one of them? I dunno, what do you guys think? How far should the police forces go? Killerzzz
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Post by Elliot Kane on Mar 5, 2007 16:17:58 GMT
I think wiping them out might be a bit strong. A few baton charges by riot police would certainly seem to be justified, though.
Give them a few hard knocks, jail the ringleaders, use water cannon on any large gathering before they really get started - they'll get the message sooner or later.
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Post by ss on Mar 5, 2007 17:33:23 GMT
When I told someone I know about all this, he mentionned then Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 in China (aka, The Tiananmen Square Massacre). That happened with non-violent protesters! My friend suggested: "The Chinese had a way to handle it..." I didn't know what to say about that. I don't really like the idea of killing, but some situations need to be dealt with harshly. Is this one of them? I dunno, what do you guys think? How far should the police forces go? Killerzzz I can't say for sure, but it would probably be a bad comparision to equate this to "Tiananmen Square"...the circumstances were drastically different, I think... So I agree, indiscrimate shooting into a crowd will not solve the problem..
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Post by peterh on Mar 5, 2007 17:49:30 GMT
When I told someone I know about all this, he mentionned then Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 in China (aka, The Tiananmen Square Massacre). That happened with non-violent protesters! My friend suggested: "The Chinese had a way to handle it..." I didn't know what to say about that. I don't really like the idea of killing, but some situations need to be dealt with harshly. Is this one of them? I dunno, what do you guys think? How far should the police forces go? Killerzzz I can't say for sure, but it would probably be a bad comparision to equate this to "Tiananmen Square"...the circumstances were drastically different, I think... So I agree, indiscrimate shooting into a crowd will not solve the problem.. Yes, you can't compare the two situations at all - though I must admit the far left wing keep comparing our government to Nazi Germany. Kinda ironic when most support either communism or anarchism - not the most peaceful of ideologies ever.
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Post by killerzzz on Mar 5, 2007 17:58:59 GMT
I think wiping them out might be a bit strong. A few baton charges by riot police would certainly seem to be justified, though. Give them a few hard knocks, jail the ringleaders, use water cannon on any large gathering before they really get started - they'll get the message sooner or later. I like your idea. I'm always fond of a good justified beating. And I too concur, the situations cannot be compared, but I was just throwing it out there. Killerzzz
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Post by peterh on Mar 5, 2007 18:07:49 GMT
I think wiping them out might be a bit strong. A few baton charges by riot police would certainly seem to be justified, though. Give them a few hard knocks, jail the ringleaders, use water cannon on any large gathering before they really get started - they'll get the message sooner or later. Jailing the ringleaders won't stop anything. There's already been over 600 arrests but these people are very well organised. Last night was quiet - probably because the protesters needed some rest. Tonight could go either way - it's a workday tomorrow and that means that even some of the protesters have work or school. On the other hand Ungdomshuset was teared down today so rage is rising. By the way - the house was a dump. I read an interview with a neighbour to the house and while he thought there should be a place a youth house, he's glad they're gone. The house's surface was used to both piss and shite on, the noise and stench was unbearable. Plus there was a rat problem. There's a picture series of the house and I'll try to look it up..
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