Manga for Elliot - a quest!

[SilvaShado]

Okay everyone! Put on your thinking caps. We're gonna find a manga that Elliot's gonna like!

So everyone try to remember what kinds of stories Elliot likes and post here. Steve, help us out a bit here. You probably know him better than anyone else here.

We already know he doesn't like Naruto and I think it's because it was too childish - right Phil? If so, we need to find something more mature.

Oh and Elliot, you're perfectly welcome to post your own thoughts about what kinds of stories/comics you like to read. Info straight from the source will help us be more accurate. ;D

[Elliot Kane]

Heh. I wish you luck ;D

You'll need to find something that is NOT childish, does NOT have the kind of Manga artwork I hate and preferably reads left to right.

I'll be following this thread with interest... ;D

[SilvaShado]

please elaborate about the artwork. Can you post links to examples so we can avoid it...

Not childish - check

left to right - check .... though that's getting harder and harder to find as companies are going to the original printing version of Japan.

[Elliot Kane]

Livewires & Final Fantasy 8 & 10 = good.

FF7 & 9 = unreadable eyesore.

[SilvaShado]

Hard to compare manga to the animation in Final Fantasy.... anime is very different from manga... Guess we'll have to post up images as we go and get your opinions on the art.

[Gray Lensman]

You might want to consider Ghost In The Shell. It's actually not too far off from Livewires in some respects.

Here's an 8-page preview. Though the actual work is hugely complex and can't really be summed up in 8 pages.

Ghost In The Shell

Oh, and it reads left to right. I love Dark Horse. ;D

[Elliot Kane]

Errrr... No. Too much HUGE eyed stuff... And too Oliver Twist caricature.

[thebarkingshark]

Elliot, don't listen to them! We already have too many manga eejits here! Don't give in! -SHARK DIGGLER

[Elliot Kane]

LOL Shark! ;D

Gotta admit - they have a real uphill struggle with me

[hector]

We and Shark are behind you!! Fight them with all your might!

[janggut]

sure, all u lots are behind EK while he has to take all the beatings. some supporters u sods are! ;D

maybe something from Katsuhiro Otomo might be of Sir Kane's interest?

www.lambiek.net/otomo_katshurio.htm
www.geocities.com/alfiehardy/otomo.html

[philster]

I think this is a losing battle, to be frank with you guys.

1) Elliot seems pretty set in his opinion on Japanese comics and isn't willing to change his mind any time soon.

2) Left to Right, most of the best manga aren't meant to be configured as such. If you want to know why, read a X-Men comic as shown in a mirror. The art is backwards and most of the time it shows glaring mistakes in the art. (I don't know how Inu Yasha got away with it but even with it there are some noticeable differences - such as Sesshou-Maru's crescent moon symbol on his forehead being backwards.)

3) Most manga also doesn't have the kind of art that Elliot prefers, from what he's told me of his favorite artists.

Good luck guys, though, but I don't see any success coming out of this one.

[philster]

Oh, and Sarah, I wouldn't consider Naruto "too childish."

Especially considering it includes a more gory scene than most Marvel and DC titles can ever brag about.

Granted, Shonen titles are for boys, usually teens, and Shojo are for girls in their teens. But so were most Marvel and DC titles when they got started though.

According to an interview I read, the editor of Shonen Jump was initially alarmed because Kishimoto chose to make his main characters children (age 12) because the editor knew there would be problems with the public as a result of kids being involved in scenes of violence. Kishimoto convinced the editor of Shonen Jump to let them stay 12-year old, though, but it wasn't an easy battle for him.

(And I think Kishimoto intended originally for these kids to be EVEN younger so he kept them looking younger - that's why his 12-year old characters still look younger compared to, say, the kids in Bleach.)

[philster]

That being said, I haven't so far found a mature Japanese title that appealed to me either. Maybe that's why I'm not being very positive here.

[Elliot Kane]

"I rule & you drool" is just SO adult, of course ;D

A lot of manga I have seen suffers from the 'gosh wow' factor of over-exaggeration, both artistically and in the writing, and a very great deal of it is indeed childish - at least to my eyes. I am also not fond of children as main protagonists. Teenagers are cool. Kids - no.

Contrary to what Phil thinks, I am certain there must be some Mange out there I will like, as different Manga are deliberately created to appeal to a huge variety of different audiences. The only real question is whether or not it has ever been translated from Japanese.

If you look at 2000AD - that is what, to me, forms the basis of a good non-superhero comic. Art styles can vary widely, but they are suited to the story, and the best stories are invariably written to a very high standard indeed.

In terms of US comics, I am much more likely to read a new Vertigo title than I am to read a mainstream project, as Vertigo is written entirely for a mature audience.

If the stuff you are recommending is, as Silva says, mainly aimed at teenage boys... Well, it is incredibly unlikely to appeal to me in any way. Sorry

***

Janggut... Otomo's art is pretty good. Not sure I like the other guy, though

[philster]

admin said:

"I rule & you drool" is just SO adult, of course ;D

That's just who Naruto is - he's an attention-starved but good-hearted kid seeking a release from his loneliness. A brat, but one still growing up and one bold enough to try to overcome his limitations and determined to achieve his dream of being "the strongest."

By his sheer stubborness alone, he changes the lives of everybody whose paths he crosses. Everybody underestimates him, but he always prevails. In some ways he's as dumb as a county hick, but in other ways he's as wise as anybody.

Don't make too much out of a line. Otherwise you could reach a conclusion that Wolverine is rather simple-minded by most of his dialogue, such as "I like beer."

A lot of manga I have seen suffers from the 'gosh wow' factor of over-exaggeration, both artistically and in the writing, and a very great deal of it is indeed childish - at least to my eyes. I am also not fond of children as main protagonists. Teenagers are cool. Kids - no.

Over-exaggeration at times is meant to convey emotions more directly to the reader. Most of the time I agree that it is done very poorly, but Kishimoto uses this only sparingly (more so in the first few chapters than the rest of the series).

And BTW, Naruto is now 14 years old at the current chapter of Naruto in Japan. They are growing up. At the end of the series they likely will be past their teens.

Contrary to what Phil thinks, I am certain there must be some Mange out there I will like, as different Manga are deliberately created to appeal to a huge variety of different audiences. The only real question is whether or not it has ever been translated from Japanese.

We'll see, I guess.

If you look at 2000AD - that is what, to me, forms the basis of a good non-superhero comic. Art styles can vary widely, but they are suited to the story, and the best stories are invariably written to a very high standard indeed.

In terms of US comics, I am much more likely to read a new Vertigo title than I am to read a mainstream project, as Vertigo is written entirely for a mature audience.

That's exactly why I think this quest is probably going to be a vain one. I have yet to come across any "mature themed" Japanese story that even appeals to me. Nothing as intelligent as Gaiman's Sandman, for sure.

If the stuff you are recommending is, as Silva says, mainly aimed at teenage boys... Well, it is incredibly unlikely to appeal to me in any way. Sorry

I figured.

[Elliot Kane]

Naruto is a kid, and he's written as a kid. It's good characterisation, don't get me wrong - just not my thing

[SilvaShado]

*sigh*

Well, guess I better put my two cents in before giving up.

The only mature title I read is Bastard. It's a sword & sorcery title - violence, mature situations, lewd humor, partial nudity... uh, what else. Oh, it has Heavy Metal references, which I find is what turns most people off this title. I tend to just let it all roll off, but then I miss most of the references anyway.

Here's a short synopsis of the first volume:
"In this first volume of ultimate sword and sorcery manga, the kingdom of Metallicana is under attack by the dark forces of four evil armies sweeping the world. As orcs and giants besiege their citadel, the desperate defenders turn to a legend that a virgins kiss may awaken Dark Schneider, an ancient evil wizard sealed within the body of Lucien, a seemingly normal 14-year-old-boy. Yoko, Luciens teenage stepsister, does the deed and as the castle falls, Lucien metamorphoses into a silver-haired demigod! Dark Schneider, the chaotic, lecherous wizard, has returned, only barely restrained by the magic that forces him to obey Yoko! But a world of demons, dragons, and the four evil generals await him bloodstained Metallicana may never know peace again."

Unfortunately, I can't find any preview pages, only cover images, which are not good to go by:


However, if this sounds even remotely interesting Elliot, let me know and I can scan in the first issue so you can get a better idea of it. I still have all the individual issues that Viz produced before switching to GNs. Those are pretty easy to scan, just have to ask Phil about how to clean up the pages.

Otherwise, many non-manga fans have enjoyed Battle Royale and Vagabond.

Here's info on Vagabond published by Viz:
"Tokugawa Era Japan: a new government has just taken power and the land is in disarray. Amidst the turmoil, a young man sets out on a journey seeking spiritual enlightenment by the way of the sword, prepared to slay anyone who might get in his way! Adapted from the fictionalized biography Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa, Takehiko Inoue depicts the life and times of real-life "sword saint" Miyamoto Musashi.

TROUBLES MAY LIE AHEAD…
At the aftermath of the Battle of Sekigahara, 17-year-old Takezô and his friend Matahachi—survivors on the losing side—seek refuge at the home of a woman named Okô. Tsujikaze Tenma, the local bandit leader, and his men attack. Takezô manages to defeat Tsujikaze Tenma, while Matahachi sneaks off with Okô and her daughter Akemi. Separated from Matahachi, Takezô returns to his home village of Musashi and finds he is wanted as a criminal! Will Takezô be captured? "


Battle Royale, published by Tokyopop:
"In the future, random Jr. High School classes are chosen to compete in a game called Battle Royale. The rules: only one student can survive after 3 days on an island or else they all perish. Weapons are handed out and each student is sent out into the field alone and unprepared for the horror that awaits them. The classmates turn upon themselves in a battle for survival, treaties are made and broken, and former friends become foes as the relentless countdown continues. Amid the betrayals and rising body count, two classmates confess their love for each other and swear to survive this deadly game together. "

TP has preview pages, but it's read right to left, a problem you'll run into with many TP titles: www.tokyopop.com/dbpage.php?propertycode=BAT&categorycode=BMG

Dark Horse is probably the way to go.

Lone Wolf & Cub is very very good from what I hear, but very very long: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=40-092

There's also Berserk, which Will has seen the anime of and says its very good: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=12-705

I particularly like Gunsmith Cats: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=46-520

I wonder if Hellsing will be your thing, it's set in England: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=12-871

I highly enjoyed the Trigun anime, but never got into the manga: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=12-867

Even with Dark Horse, some of their titles are right to left. I'll take a look into which titles have novelizations.

Speaking of which, I'd highly recommend the Vampire Hunter D novel 1, which is available now from Dark Horse. You might like it since you're a FF fan as it's illustrated by Yoshitaka Amano: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=10-583

Well, that's it for now. I'll wait to say more until I get feedback from you Elliot.

[Elliot Kane]

It'll take me some time to go through that lot, Silva. As a heavy metal fan, I probably WOULD get many of the bastard references... And I would find them annoying. Sad, because that looked pretty good, otherwise.

The rest I'll comment on later

[SilvaShado]

Dang... I'll never get anyone else to try Bastard. No matter whether they like Heavy Metal or not, people don't like the references... *sigh*

I'd say to check it out in a store, but even if a store near you carried it - it'd be shrinkwrapped...

Well, do you want me to scan in the first issue so you can see how the references are used?